water leaks from DOOR SEALS FILLING with water, leaks on ground when opening
Holes on top of door seals allow rain to enter inside seal when door is closed,
upon opening, water pours out bottom holes. Thankfully water does not enter
car but should not enter seal either. Why have HOLES ON TOP? If they're
there to allow seal to collapse on closing, there are plenty of side holes.
Should not have holes on top!
My 2017 LS Equinox does the same thing...a good POUR. I called salesman; never heard of it. Called Svc Advisor; said bring it in to check it out. Advisor didn't mention gaskets, but did say there's a water tray in bottom where it should drain as you drive. I am envisioning rot in the gasket and/or mildew, causing odor in the vehicle. Call me paranoid, but had I known before - NO Equinox would be in my garage.
THANKS Guru9L7MV, I was starting to question my sanity!! I've asked folks and inspected several Equinoxes, explaining what mine does and they look at me like I just graduated from the LOONEY-BIN! They never have had the situation. I believe them, there's no missing it if you got the problem, especially after a good rain!! I've checked their gaskets and they LOOK identical to mine. I felt vindicated by your post, THANK YOU VERY MUCH. Now I at least have some "proof" when I take it in. I'm also assuming all four of your doors do leak? All mine do, I can even tell you which direction the rains came by which doors drain the MOST. It's a shame, brand new vehicle. I like most of it except for the back seat fold-down which leaves the seat back at a 30 degree angle, HATE THAT! Please keep me updated (dealer visit?) on your situation and if you hear any more from ANYONE! duder99....
I, too, have a 2017 Equinox, and after a rain storm I have water pouring out on the ground from all four doors. I have never seen this before in any vehicle I have owned. This is my second Equinox. The first was a 2011, and did not have this problem. There is never water inside the cabin, but I am concerned that if the vehicle sits long enough in the rain the water may build up and that it will seep in. My wife and I were antique shopping and some folks pulled in next to us in a 2017 Equinox. I approached them and asked if they ever experienced the same issue, and they said, yes.
THANKS DNYN3, That's at least 3 of us with the GREAT FLOOD situation! It seems rare but it's out there. I approached my Service Department supervisor and showed him the video I took of the 4 doors emptying and no one there was in any way familiar with it! I asked him to check around, no real hurry and get back to me but nothing yet. I must say I've talked to a few other 2017 owners and they say the DO NOT have the problem, I believe them, I don't see how anyone could miss it! If you or anyone else has ANYTHING, PLEASE let me know! duder99...
Thanx for writing back, duder99. Contacted my dealer's service department and they said, "That's normal. It's due to the tight weather stripping". I said no way this is normal. I've been driving/owning vehicles for a very long time and I have never seen this condition in any previous car or truck. I plan to keep digging. Can you tell me how you made the determination that the water is entering through the holes in the weather stripping?
DNYN3, I do not understand why I received an email from GURU's that was sent following the comments you originally sent and I answered above? Your 2nd answer should be here too? Anyway, we should TRY to stay here with our comments so we have a full string (which I've taken and plan to keep taking to the dealer) as history. GURUs, YOU NEED TO MAKE SURE ALL CORRESPONDENCE IS POSTED!!! If need be, we could possibly exchange email addresses? Now, if only 10% of us have this situation, and the dealer says it's normal, that means that 90% of 2017 Equinox's are driving around with faulty door seals because they DO NOT FLOOD during a rainstorm, right?? Oh, please, normal?! There are holes all along the outer edge of the door seals ( there to allow compressed air to escape, created when door slams and compresses the seals ) which mean there are OPEN HOLES along the top of each seal. If you haven't yet, easily pull away the tops of the seals and you'll see, about every 6 inches or so, holes about 1/8th wide. That's about 8-10 holes along the tops allowing water to drain in and FILL UP interior of the seals. It appears it's the only way water could be allowed in. I can't understand why they consider that NORMAL when most do not do it??! As I said, I took a video of "door drainage" and all exchanges I've had with other folks to the dealer, I recommend you do the same! I'm located in Michigan, not that that has any bearing, just info. I also "gingerly" contacted Chevy (I think you might consider that also) and asked if they were aware of this situation. (email@example.com) Of course they denied knowledge, preferring I deal with the service department first. So, PLEASE keep in touch, let me know your situation and maybe we can get this "NORMAL" situation corrected!! GOOD LUCK...TO US BOTH!! duder....
DNYN3...Almost forgot this....next time you open the doors, after the water APPEARS to have finished draining, what I do is, I push my finger at the bottom end of the seal at the rear and slide my finger forward. Then you will see why i say the seals are full of water. The be a "peeing-like" stream of water running from the INSIDE of the seal. Only way for it to get in is water draining in from small top holes!! Make sense?? Ok, enough from me....YOUR THOUGHTS? duder.....
Duder, had a heavy rainstorm here last night and, as expected, all the doors dumped water on my driveway this morning. I have inspected the seals and found the holes you refer to. Now that I have read your most recent response I will apply finger pressure on the bottom rear of the seal moving forward in an attempt to get the retained water drainage. I have to believe there are more than just a few of us experiencing this issue. Many of the others, I am assuming, are not saying anything in a public forum like you and I are. If I see the "pee-like" stream I plan to conduct an experiment. I am going to plug the seal holes on just one of the doors and see if that corrects the condition on that door the next time it rains. There is rain in the forecast here for most of the week. We live in extreme Western New York, by the way. Very close to the Niagara River about 10 miles south of the Falls. If the plugging works I will do a second door to confirm my suspicions. I'll keep you posted.
Duder, please read the following carefully. It appears that more is going on than we originally thought. I conducted the first iteration of my experiment yesterday, 9/5. As I do not want to permanently alter the door seals I used strips of electrical tape inserted into the valley where the seal meets the door to plug the holes. It's in the form of a V and the holes in the seal are near the bottom of the valley. I only did this to the rear passenger door. There was rain in the forecast and we had a heavy thunderstorm about 30 minutes after I completed my set up. The weather was moving west to east and the Equinox was parked facing south, so the rain hit that side of the vehicle with the most impact. Immediately after the storm passed I went out to inspect the car and made the following observations: 1. There was water on the sill of each door that poured out on the driveway, but most of the water was on the passenger side, and, get this, the most water was pooled on the rear passenger door where I had blocked the holes on the top of the seal. 2. There was zero evidence of any moisture on the top of the seals on any of the doors. I found that very strange. I have made no conclusions as yet, but I am starting to wonder if the water is coming from somewhere other than the top holes on the seals. It seems to me that the tape I used would have, at the very least, impeded water entering the seal if it didn't block it completely, but that door actually had the most water leaking out on the driveway. I did press the bottom of the seals on each door moving my finger along the bottom of the seal and water did "pee" out of the larger holes, but I am starting to think that the water, wherever it is coming from, is pooling up on the door sills and backing up into the seals instead of draining down from the top holes. I plan to continue my investigation and will provide updates as I make additional findings. Please let me know if you find any moisture on the tops of your door seals after the next rain you experience.
DNYN3, FUNNY, I did get an email alert for your last message but not the one before (your planning experiment). I've found that it's ALWAYS best to check the forum frequently and not rely on the email, necessarily! Anyway....................WOW! Very interesting! To be honest, I can't quite remember if I found water at seal-top but will definitely check after next rain. I know what you're saying by "door sills" meaning the area just below the vinyl and rubber strip for the carpeting, right? I just can't imagine how anything could PUSH rainwater UP THE SEALS? But, who knows with this crazy situation! I just naturally felt, gravity, water drains DOWN into the seal, not up! Also, it appears MOST of the lower seal holes are blocked by sealing against the sill area? Then again, hard to see in there for sure. I've been looking around for SMALL rubber plugs, my first thoughts were to just plug all the upper door seal holes but have not found what I think would be appropriate. I do agree that more folks are involved, just ignoring it or THINKING it's NORMAL (sic) If anyone out there are followoing our exciting adventure, PLEASE post something and drop us a line of AGREE/DISAGREE. It might make a difference.!!! DNY, I've been to the FALLS a couple times many years ago, VERY AWSOME! Grab a map of Michigan, locate the top of the THUMB (lower peninsula "mitten") and you'll see me inspecting my Equinox at the VERY TIP ! :-) Anyway, I'll let you know after the next rain of upper moisture, you keep me updated on your "experiments! Together, we'll pool our knowledge and SELL the info to GM so they can fix things!! duder.....
Duder, my wife and I have been to MI many times, and I used to travel there on business, but mostly to the Detroit, Wixom, and Lansing areas. When my wife and I have visited it was to see Frankenmuth. In fact on one trip we spent a night in Frankenmuth, then travelled to the UP because I have always wanted to cross over on the Mackinaw Bridge, and see the Shipwreck Museum. We also took the ferry to Mackinaw Island that time and it was a great trip. We have had an extraordinarily wet summer here. Don't know about you guys in MI but I make that determination by how often I have to drag hoses around to water my lawn so it doesn't dry out, and I haven't had to do that once this summer. In fact it's raining again right now. Hard. Coming down like a cow pissing on a flat rock, if you'll forgive the farming colloquialism. As soon as it ends I will go out and check the doors, particularly for moisture on the tops of the seals. There is a weather strip in the shape of a U that sits outboard of the seals at the top of all the doors. I always see moisture on that after a rainfall all the time, but it seems to prevent water from reaching the seal itself. I think your idea of using a plug is excellent. That would keep us from permanently altering the seals and voiding any warranty coverage. I will look for some at this end and keep you posted on my continuing investigation.
Duder, wanted to send this immediately. Just checked the Equinox and the tops of the seals are dry. No moisture on any of them. However, water poured out from every door when opened, especially the driver's door, not that there is any significance to that. Must have to do with how the rain fell. Anyway, I also made another observation. The seal meets the side of the vehicle just below the door sill when you close the door. I didn't know that before. I opened the back door on the passenger side and left the front door ajar, so I could see where the seal ends up as the door closes. I had thought that it (the seal) rested on top of the sill, but it is just below it, i.e. below the actual opening. Therefore, as water collects on the sill it can easily run slightly downhill and into the two holes on the bottom of the seal. So, I am still wondering where the water is draining from, and why the seals are so tight s to restrict the flow. In other words, the seals actually do hold the water from draining off of the sill. The water that does make it into the interior of the doors weeps out the two holes on the extreme bottom of the door. The water you and I are seeing, at least as far as I am concerned, should never make it past the seals, but it is, and it is collecting on the door sill. More to follow.....
DNYN3....Answering both of your posts....Yeah, Michigan is a pretty neat area, more so than many give it credit for!! It rained pretty good last night......Opened the doors this morning, good water quantity from both drivers side, mostly nothing from the passenger side. I had a little trouble with your situation, one door ajar so you could see the seal on the pass side rear door. I was thinking (for some reason) you left the front drivers open and I thought, "I can't see anything"? on the pass rear door! I guess you left the front pass open and looked underneath/bottom from the front view back to under the rear door as the door slowly closed, right? I see where the seal seems to just barely sit on the curve of the sill. I think I already kind of knew the seal sat high on the edge of the sill not really hitting the top of sill nor the middle either! Are we confusing or what!!? Anyway, let me know if I got the scenario correct. By the way, no moisture on ANY of the tops of my seals nor the U shaped deflector seals. I agree, I think there would be something there if it's leaking in but I kinda noticed also, It appears there is a coating of, I guess, silicone spray on the rubber seals. I noticed that awhile ago I tried to electric- tape the holes while troubleshooting and the tape fell right off. That MIGHT account for no water clinging around there although I doubt it, something else to ponder. All that be as it were, how could our seals be different that others with no leaks? There's holes into the door where the seals mount pins snap into so that kinda doesn't jive, like they only go one way, no area for adjustment. I noticed another thing today while duplicating your T/shooting.....open the pass front door completely....now look back into the area (with the rear door closed) and you'll see, while the big drain holes are MOST LIKELY blocked while the doors are closed up, if you follow up the seal up from the bottom, you can see, with the doors closed, the compression holes appear to be hanging right out there, fully open as you're driving down the road! I assume that would be true of all doors holes. So, here we are, I think the only way we'll know for sure is, we need to be shrunk down to about 1" tall, put on a shrunk-down skin divers suit, sit in there with a flashlight and WAIT FOR IT TO RAIN!!! I had to say that, if we stay TOO serious, I'll need to drink even more!!! Your thoughts (had to ask) duder....
Duder, yes, I left the front pass door ajar and the rear pass fully open. Then, squatting down low enough next to the rear pass opening, I observed the front pass door closing and it appeared to me that the seal is meeting the side of the door opening just slightly below the sill, i.e. on a vertical surface. So, the seal is then trapping any draining water until someone opens the door and allows the water to escape. Although the seals are tight against the side of the vehicle I still believe, due to the extreme porosity of water, that the liquid is finding it's way into one or both of the larger holes located on the bottom of each seal, not coming from the top as we originally thought. That's a good thing. I also noticed the non-stick surface of the seals that you mention. Like I stated in an earlier message no tape I know of will stick to that rubber, but I'm sure that is intentional. The non-stick properties of the seals eliminates the noises you would otherwise hear when the vehicle flexes normally while in motion. They want the seal to have some give and slide against the metal. Anyway, even with the coating there should still be some residual moisture after a rain storm. I have checked within minutes and I never find anything. I'm also not convinced that our Equinox SUVs are in any way substantially different than any others produced for this model year. I still think other folks are either not alarmed when they see the draining water, not concerned, or think, or have been told, it's normal. At the end of the day no water is coming into the cabin, and that was my overriding concern when I first observed the problem. It still isn't normal, and I want to know where it's coming from so I intend to continue my investigation. I have another idea for an experiment, but I need to flesh it out first. I'll keep you posted on results.
DNYN3....Another experiment huh? So, I guess you were not excited by my shrinkage and door skin diving idea, huh? lol....Go for it and let me know the scenerio. I understand all you're saying but, with the seals sealing tight enough to prevent the water from draining out until door opening, I truly find it hard to believe water is entering the seals thru the LARGE drain holes....somewhere else and maybe not the top holes but not the lower, larger holes. But, like I said earlier, with this problem, who the hell knows!! I keep thinking of the THOUSANDS of vehicles which, supposedly do not have this problem One thing I'd like to try to eliminate the top holes is to plug them (and I'm thinking if you follow them around the door top, maybe 10 holes or more to eliminate them as the culprit) but I can't find what I consider as a proper plug. Looks like we'd need at least a 1/8th size plug. maybe a little larger. I'll keep looking and let you know if I find any. I guess we'll keep trying, drinking and losing sleep until we either find a solution or expire trying....GOOD LUCK! duder.....
Hi Duder, yeah I like the shrink and skin dive option. Reminds me of Fantastic Voyage. You old enough to remember that movie? Miniature sub scooting around in some guy's arteries. Anyway, the plug idea is something we need to try so I will keep looking on this end and let you know if I find anything. However, I am leaning toward no water is entering the seals at the top, or on the sides. Plugging all but the bottom holes would prove that. And, once we have that knowledge, we could find two larger plugs for the bottom holes and eliminate the seal leaking altogether. That would be a good thing because none of us want the potential rot/mildew issues having moisture in the seals could cause. Here is what I think; I believe the water is coming in naturally. In other words when it rains, or if you wash the vehicle, you will see water, usually in the form of drips, all around the metal surfaces of the door and door openings. It doesn't enter the cabin, at least is shouldn't, but you do see it elsewhere. Every time I wash the Equinox I open all the doors, hood, and rear hatch and dry off those areas with a towel. I never see the pooling of water on the door sills, but the exposure with the hose is minimal. With rain there is a lot more water falling on the vehicle and then it collects on the door sills. I think if you ran the hose long enough you would see the water pour out when you open the doors. My Equinox has never been to a car wash, but there may be enough exposure there. For some reason the seals on some of these vehicles, like yours and mine, are so tight they don't allow the water to escape, i.e.. drain away. If it did drain away we would never be having this discussion. Obviously these cars, like all others, are not water tight. They are designed to allow the water, like rain, to enter through all the cracks around doors, hoods, etc. Then the water drains harmlessly away like it's supposed to. That's why there are two weep holes on the bottom of each door. Water even gets inside of the doors and has to be eliminated. That's why your idea about plugs is excellent and so crucial to determining if the seals are leaking. I simply don't believe they are, but plugging would conclusively prove it one way or the other. For my experiment I plan to attempt taping a small object to the door opening just below the sill on the vertical surface so when the door closes the seal will not make a flush contact with the metal. I want to see if the water then drains away the next time it rains. I think it will. In other words when I open all the doors I should not see any water pour out of that one. Let's keep looking for plugs as well, and see if we can eliminate the seals as the water source. I'll do my experiment and let you know the outcome. More to follow....
DNY.....Yep, remember that movie, 1966. The best part wasn't the sub, it was RAQUEL WELCH!! I'm a retired Federal Civil Service employee with the USAF as well as retired USAF, 35 years so I was definitely around then! Now, 73 years old....or is it YOUNG? I was going to ask you if you've duplicated the leaking with a garden hose? I've not tried that, only been troubleshooting with the rain, wondering how long you need to hold the running hose on the top door area? (probably going to need that info for T/shooting if no rain available!) Or whatever, let me know. I like your experiment about moving the seal away from the sills (letting water drain behind the sill sealing area) but that still won't tell you how the water gets IN the seals. With those 2 larger holes smashed against the sill, no wonder it holds water there, but the seals SHOULD be tight, keeping dirt and noise away from the auto interior. WE DEFINITELY need to determine HOW water fills the seals but I'm feeling that (although this would default on the warranty probably) we're going to have to do a little surgery...on the BOTTOMS of the seals as would be presented in the CLOSED position! Either CUT/PUNCH ONE or most likely TWO holes (possibly below the existing 2 drain holes) that would be open, pointing at the ground, door in closed position. I'm believing that would eliminate the WATER NO MATTER where it's entering. I'm still looking for the proper plugs but no luck yet!! Let me know your results. duder,,,,,
Duder, Sounds like you remember that movie very well. I spent 4 years in the Air Force, Viet Nam Era. 1968 to 1972. Sounds like you are relatively the same vintage. I am a retired plant manager. I decided to bail out this year at 68, but I do miss the people and the problem solving. I DO NOT miss the daily BS. I'll be 69 next month so I'm right behind you. Please do not modify your seals in any way. That will void your warranty and I really do not believe it's necessary, so please hold off at least until we know more. I am convinced that the seals are not filling with water. We need to try your plug experiment to prove that, however. That is, plug the seal holes but still see water collecting on the door sills. I think we will still see water in the bottom of the seals as well entering through the two larger holes down there. Then, if we cause the seal not to meet flush with the metal below the sill the water should drain away. I have not done the garden hose trial yet. There is little rain in our forecast here so I plan to do that this week, probably tomorrow. If I can get water to pool up on a sill, then I can force the seal away from the metal and drain it away as well. I agree with you that the seals need to be tight to keep water a dirt out but what is wrong with this design that it holds the water in. Makes no sense and is something I have never experienced before. Time for a Molson Canadian. More to follow....
DNYN3 You've been pretty quiet, give up and sell your Equinox? :) Same still here, it rains and I DRAINS! I'm now starting to doubt my theory about water entering thru the TOP of the seals since there's no evidence of water up there after raining. BUT, I believe water is entering somehow and laying on the door sill AND ALSO entering the seal, you can definitely observe it running from the larger drain holes. Let me know what's going on on your end. JUST AMAZES me! By the way, I just noticed someone complaining about water running from all 4 doors....on a 2018 EQUINOX! It only gets better!!! It should be visible to you below our posts....OH MY.....duder...
Hi Duder, I was just thinking about you yesterday because we have not corresponded in several weeks. Truth is we have had extraordinarily dry and warm weather. Very strange for this time of year. There have been a few frontal passages but the rain is always hit or miss. However, tonight we are expecting the remnants of Hurricane Nate and should be getting a significant rainfall. Hopefully, I can finally conduct my experiment and see if the water just drains away harmlessly. I agree that no water is entering through the top holes in the seals. I have never seen water in that area. And, if it cannot enter through a vertical pathway, it follows that it is not coming in laterally through the side holes. I believe we are seeing normal moisture coming in around the door openings and collecting on the sill. If it drained away we would not have any concern. But we know that isn't the case because the seals are tight enough at the bottom to hold the water on the sill until the door is opened and it is released. My belief now is that we are experiencing a design flaw in the seals. Fortunately water never enters the cabin. Today I am planning to introduce the mini-obstruction below the seal. If it rains as forecast I hope to see zero water pooled on that sill. I'll let you know. So, this same problem exists on the 2018? Very interesting. You know, aside from this water issue, I really like the vehicle. Mine has the 3.6 litre V6 with 301 horsepower. It really moves. It actually has 1 HP more than my vette, which is a 1995 with a 350/300. Ok, more to follow....
Just so we are on the same page..... WHEN you open the door and water CASCADES out from on top of the door sills, YOU DO ALSO have water running from INSIDE the seals and you can slide your finger along the seal so it PEES out the larger holes, correct? I think we agreed on that scenario but need to make sure, reading above in your message you don't mention water running except from the sill tops. When I open my door, the water laying on the sill does Indeed run out but I IMMEDIATELY see water draining from the drain holes and I can make it pee out with my finger-slide. But I'm still mystified as to how water can collect on the sills, above the seals, with all the seal holes contacting and sealing tightly AGAINST the lower side of the sills AND SOMEHOW ENTERING THE SEALS!?! I don't see how it can enter the seals there, which begs the question, "HOW THE HELL IS IT ENTERING THE SEALS!" Hence, my early assumption that it entered at the above compression holes at the top of the seals! Agreeing with you, I don't think it's entering at the top but, until we plug the top holes, I think the "HOW" will haunt us until we enter the nearest bar. I'm still looking for suitable plugs but, so far no luck. You find anything? My buddy just bought a 2018 Equinox and when I told him I saw people with 2018's complaining, he about....SHIT! Looking forward to your insight! duder....
Hey Duder, ok, several things to relay to you. First, yes, we are on the same page regarding water pouring out when I open the door after a rainstorm, and also squirting out of the bottom seal holes when I press in and run my finger along the seal. What you refer to as peeing out. I see that. Now, as forecasted, we had a heavy duty rain on Monday so, as I had planned, I placed a small obstruction on the vertical metal surface just below the lip of the door sill on the driver's door where it would interfere with the seal. It is still in place and is a 1" rubber O-ring cut in half. The two halves are placed about a quarter inch apart and adhered to the metal with electrical tape. This creates an opening that allows the rain water to drain. This morning when I opened the doors on the Equinox water poured out from all but the driver's door. That sill had a few drops on it like the other three, but no water poured out, and that can only be because it had already drained away during the night. That's not the only thing I found, however. I also was able to get water to pee out of the larger holes on all the door seals except the driver's door. I can only surmise that the water, as I have suspected, is finding its way into the larger seal holes at the bottom, but was not present on the driver door seal because it never pooled on the sill and then found its way into the seal very slowly because the seals are tight. By the way, none of the seals showed any trace of water residue on the tops. I do not believe any water is entering the seals except at the bottom. It's suppose to rain again here on Wednesday so I will repeat the experiment. I know we want to plug the seal holes to confirm our suspicions but I still have not found a suitable plug, and I don't want to alter the seals in any way due to potential warranty concerns. That's it for now. I'll keep you posted on what I find after the next rainstorm. Dennis
DNY....WELL DONE, my friend! I assume you placed the "0" ring obstruction where, when closed, the rings hit the door seal mid-length (center of seal length, front-to-rear)? The seal does contact just below the curve of the sill, correct? SO, You seemed to prove it, the rain is pooling on the sill and entering the seal at the bottom which almost seems impossible given how firmly the seals seem to press on the door sills (which would seem to definitely prevent any water from entering the seals)? Yet, that's what APPEARS to be happening! I JUST WENT OUT AND PURGED MY DOORS FROM LAST NIGHTS RAIN. LARGE AMOUNTS FROM LT. SIDES, NOT AS MUCH FROM RT. SIDES (rain direction stronger on drivers side). ONE OTHER POSSIBILITY IS...normally water is pooling as it rains. When the quantity is large enough, the water may be CLIMBING the outside of the seals and entering the seals through the seal mounting CLIPS? Do this, check first at the TOP of the door (easier to see my explanation before you look below). Slowly, put your finger under the area where the seal is mounted to the door. As you slide your finger across you'll find mounting pins stuck into the seal, (about every 4 inches) and there it snaps into holes in the door, holding the seals in position. I've noticed as I've done my "PEEING-SLIDE" while purging the water from the seals, I was ALSO getting water running from the area behind the seal where it mates to the door. So, we've got probably 8-10 mounting holes behind the seals with the sill-water laying directly on the top from the sill draining! Who knows but I think it's more plausible than the water entering thru the drain holes tightly slammed against the vertical part of the sill! Agree? All this wonderful information still begs, HOW DOES THE WATER GET IN TO POOL ON TOP OF THE SILLS??!!?? Where does it enter? I do not see anyway of figuring that out? Some where/how, the water is bypassing SOME seal allowing it to end up on the sill. My brain is starting to ache, time for a BUD! AWAITING your assessment of my assessment. ..........duder
Duder, yes, I am encouraged by these results but I want to conduct several iterations of this experiment. And, I want to try it on another door to test repeatability. You are correct on both counts....the seal hits just below the lip of the sill, and I placed the O-ring at the mid point. If the results of this experiment repeat, i.e. no pooling and no peeing, I will probably conclude that we are looking at a design flaw. The seals are trapping the water that enters around the doors during a rain storm, and that the water is not getting into the seals from a higher point unless it is getting in around the mounting clips. I never though of that but I will check those out as you suggest. I have to believe that if the pool of water is sufficient it would seep behind the seals. Maybe that's how it gets in. As for where the water initially comes from, our vehicles, like all vehicles, are not water tight. Water enters around the hood, wipers, rear hatch, and the doors. It's suppose to drain away. That's how all vehicles are designed. But, because the way the seals are designed and installed on the Equinox that water, which comes in naturally, doesn't drain because the seals prevent it. I will try my experiment a few more times, and I will also examine the mounting clips and let you know what I find. Dennis
DNY....Understand, I'm talking about the mounting clips into the door at the BOTTOM of the seal...the sill area. I only used the TOP area to explain because it's much easier getting familiarized with the mounting holes up there rather than laying on th ground trying to find them! At the bottom, they are then pointing up and when you lifted the seal with the "O" ring, I'm thinking the water would CASCADE...aiming right at them. You mentioned the mounting clips in the same sentence as "a higher point". Didn't want to confuse you...BOTTOM of seals. Also, I'm not sure it's normal for water to pool on the sills. In all my interviews with other owners who supposedly have no problems, ALL of them deny our situation happens to THEM. If your stating the pooling is normal, they should also see the first thing we see...the sills dumping their load, they all deny seeing ANY WATER running out, you know they couldn't miss that!. I'm saying that because, as I read the later part of your message about "water entering" and "the way vehicles are designed" it appears you're saying the pooling is normal? I know EVERYBODY would notice that. I'm still thinking something is haywire with our situartion, we get water pooling and others do not!? Let's see how your on-going investigation/experiments go. Unless GM/CHEV comes up with a fix, I can see what we'll end up doing...tying an "O" ring around the bottom middle of the lower sill-seals and cutting a large drain hole the the bottom-center of the lower door seal so the hole will be open at the bottom with the door closed! That's quite the fix for the supposedly HI-TECH world of 2017, huh? Keep me updated...BUD TIME!......duder P.S. I always have WATER PROBLEMS...had to do some work on my house basement SUMP PUMP....
Duder, yes, I understand you are referring to the clips located at the bottom of the seals. And, no, I am not saying that the pooling is normal. Sorry, I guess I am not being very clear. Water coming in around the doors is normal, but the pooling is NOT. That, I believe, is where the design flaw comes in to play. Water will always work its way in around the door, hood, and rear hatch, but it should drain away. In fact I never see any pooling around the hatch. I only see it on the door sills. Why other 2017 owners re not seeing this mystifies me. There is no way you would miss that much water pouring out when you open the door. I would like to meet someone with a 2017 Equinox who denies seeing the water and examine their vehicle door seals. Maybe there was a change during production that altered the seal design. Let me continue with my experiments and see what else we can learn. Dennis
DNY.....We had over an inch of rain last night so, no surprise, the doors were draining. The drivers side front was fairly heavy as usual but the back was REALLY loaded. Nothing got in but scared me for a moment, LOTSA water! The right side both had some but not a lot! You mention the rear hatch, have you read about years ago (around 2006 area) they had floods coming in around the hatch, flooding the spare tire area, LOTSA folks pissed off. Thank God we're not fighting that scenario!!. I have talked to folks who DO NOT see water, I've looked at their seals somewhat seriously and I see NO difference in theirs and mine! While I think about it, what thickness are the "O" rings you're using? You said they were 1" meaning around the circle. But the material is like 1/8th inch thick or what? I think until we come up with "THE PLAN" (whatever that might be!) I'm gonna get some probably large (circle) "O" rings, cut them to size so I can wrap them twice around all the door seals bottoms and just tie a knot in them. You stated you had NO leakage from the sill or the seals so it's got to help. I'm just wondering how much we're going to charge GM for all our investigations and experiments!! Maybe they'll give us NEW equinox's..LEAK-FREE of course. Well , Pal, time to cuddle up with a Bloody Mary and watch my BELOVED Detroit Lions and hope for the best! Keep me posted.......duder OUT!
Duder, yes, the O-rings are 1/8" thick. Had a bit of a set back, or so I thought, last rainstorm. There was water pooled on the sill of the driver's door that poured out when I opened the door. That's where the O-ring is, but it quickly dawned on me that the vehicle was parked on a slight incline. The pooled water must have been on the sill past the O-ring drain port (in the center) going toward the rear of the car. So, I now have O-rings in three locations, front, center, and rear. That should allow water to drain if I am ever parked again on a surface that is not level, and it rains. This is the first I have heard about water in the spare tire well. I will check as soon as I am done here. That would be a major issue. So far I have seen no water inside the cabin. You mention making a comparison of the seals on your Equinox and Equinox vehicles owned by other folks and seeing no difference. That is really strange. They would have to see the water pouring out. Where the hell is the water going on their cars??? Well, I'm going to continue with my sporadic experimentation. Everything depends on when it rains. I'll let you know what transpires. Dennis
DNY.... I bet that shook you up, but it makes sense...gravity! I was thinking a little larger than 1/8" thickness, wondering how much of a gap is in there, no way to tell I guess. Your thoughts on a little thicker? I'm planning to wrap a piece of the ring around the seal (twice) and just tie a knot in it in the center of the seal but you got me thinking now about more than just the center location. I assume you'd agree on that? I never looked in my spare tire well since I read about the problems earlier believing they got it fixed....it really seemed like a big deal then, lotsa pissed off folks! Understandable! Guess I better check it out. Here's my take about our leaks and there no-leaks. Something is different about our vehicles, that's why we leak! I have a feeling that they DO NOT GET LEAKAGE IN THERE ON THE SILLS! What else could explain our leaks and their no-leaks? You know if it leaks, it's gotta be there. Anyway, let me know how you progress onward!.....duder
Hi Duder, I would agree with thicker. The thicker the better so long as the door closes ok, and it doesn't allow too much back splash from the road up when you're driving. I think the way you plan to attach the O-rings to the seal is also a good idea. My spare tire well is bone dry, thank God. That would be too much. No, the water is not getting inside, but I still don't get how we get water while other Equinox owners do not. There must be some subtle difference. Gonna keep looking......Dennis
DNY....Greetings. Went to the hardware store y/day and I bought some small clear vinyl tubing, 3/16th outside diameter. Today I went out and looked the situation over. Here's what I came up with. I gently pulled the bottom door seal AWAY from the door and I inserted one end of the tubing behind then over the top of the seal, just letting it hang down about 4-5 inches. When I close the door the vinyl interferes with the seal contacting the door squarely (or at least I assume so, can't really see in there.) It's about mid length of the seal. Put it on all doors. I'm kinda wondering that since the tube forces the seal down and out if it will perform our intended duty or bo too large!? I don't see it causing any problems (I HOPE)....but, who knows? I'll probably remove it before going to the dealer in NOV or DEC for my first free oil change and rotation...plus see where we are at with the SITUATION. Also checked my spare tire area...DRY AS A BONE, PRAISE THE LORD! I did put some air in the tire, only had 50 lbs, requires 60. So here I am awaiting a rain to see how the duder experiment works out, wife said we're due for some rain Sunday. Anyway that's it, I only hope i did not go TOO BIG with the tubing, was originally was looking at 1/8th "O" ring stock, that's why I asked your opinion...SOOOO, I'll keep you posted.....duder
Duder, sounds like a good plan. You continue with the tubing, and I will continue with the O-rings. This will probably involve some trial and error until we find the right combination, that is some device to interfere with the seal making contact just below the door sill. You're right, it's impossible to see exactly how the tubing or the O-rings impact the seal. I was wondering if having the vehicle up on a lift would improve the view. Next time I am in for an oil change I will check that out, but it will be a while. I was just there a month ago. We have rain in the forecast for Sunday/Monday. I'll let you know how my experiment works out. I'm still only doing one door. By the way glad to hear that your spare tire well was dry. At least we don't have to fight that battle. Dennis
DNY.....Rain now predicted for Monday, hopefully a large amount. Figured I'd do all doors at once, see where I'm at. I don't see how checking when the vehicle is on a lift will help. I opened the rear door while the front was ajar (where I could easily move it back and forth) but the front view was JUST BARELY enough to hardly see the seal well. Just could barely see the sill bottom and my vinyl tube a little. Once the door was closed, it appears blocked by the door bottom, can't see up at all. I follow the tube looking in rear to the front as I close the front door SLOWWWWWLY and I can see the tube bottom as the door gets closer and the tube end appears well below the sill BOTTOM so it appears it MUST interfere with the sill TOP EDGE! The thing that continues to haunt me is HOW and WHERE does the rain enter that ends up pooled on the top of the sill? That total circle of door seal should effectively seal out the OUTSIDE AIR AND WATER and EFFECTIVELY anything within the seal circumference is considered to be IN THE VEHICLE!!! Just think if that was getting to our carpeting....UGH! I await hearing from you! duder....OUT!
Duder, rain is in the forecast here for Monday but it sounds hit or miss, not a good general downpour. I know what you mean about being able to see the seal. I tried the same things, i.e. looking from an open rear door toward the front. You are probably right about seeing from below, like if the vehicle was on a lift. It's just a really tough spot to get a decent view of. I will keep at it on my end and let you know what else I find. Dennis
DNY.....We had close to an inch of rain, off and on, Monday/Tuesday. More than enough for my experiment. Out I go, open all 4 doors, and......NO WATER THERE!!! Well. a couple SMALL beads of water but nothing like before. As I was inspecting the area, I did notice water running from BEHIND the bottom seals, against the doors...not a lot but wondering about it. NO PEEING OUT FROM INNER SEAL HOLES!...thinking maybe that was the entry point of our BIG WATER SILL BUILD-UP? Could the water be coming onto the sill from water draining from BEHIND the seal, not from within the seal. If it's coming from the seal mount-pin area somehow and entering from the top of the bottom seal. Not sure if that statement makes sense but I think you know what I'm saying! My WONDERFUL 3/16th vinyl tubes have selected their form now with the doors closed based on what they look like when open. The part under/in back of the seal is fairly straight, hanging down about 2 inches. The over the seal part hangs at about a 30 degree angle hanging over the seal and down about 4-5 inches long. That's about all I've got, anything happen there? Lemme know ASAP......DRY duder...OUT!
Duder, we had rain as well, but I still had a good pour on the driver's door where I had placed the O-rings. I used three, center and both ends where the sill starts to curve upward. That would seem like a failure but because you did NOT have water after actually tying tubes around the seals, I believe we now know that the seals are capturing the water that would normally drain away. Evidently my O-rings were not deflecting the seals enough or maybe not making sufficient contact. Your approach made sure the seals were pulled away from the metal and thus allowed the water to drain. I'm not sure how to interpret the lack of water peeing out of the lower seal holes. I do not believe water ever enters the seals from above, but I do not know yet how it was getting inside the bottom holes. The fact that you had no water after your experiment indicates that wherever that water originated it does drain away if the seal is deflected. At least we are making some progress, or at least you are. I will keep digging at this end and let you know if anything new turns up. Dennis
DNY.....That's why I wanted something a little thicker than your 1/8" o-ring. I figured 3/16" should be enough, did not want to get TOO large". As stated, I only put them in the middle, was parked level in driveway. Understand, also, I did not TIE the tubes around the seal, thought that might be too much thickness...there's only the HOOK tube end (about 2 ") on the rear of the seal, the tube bent/draped over the seal top to form the DIVERTER tube end (about 4') hanging on the sill side of the seal....the seal is holding everything there when the doors open and, naturally, the pressure of the closed door takes care in the closed position. You may want to do your thing and try substituting my TUBE(S) for your o-rings. I'm thinking your seal "learned" to absorb your o-ring thickness and closed off the "drain" area, the tube's extra thickness plus it's somewhat firm would help keep it open. I had already been wondering if that might happen to me so I'm leaving everything as-is and checking constantly. AGAIN, NO WATER whatsoever drained from the seal pee holes! The water was like caught BEHIND the seal, when I made my finger-slide to activate the seal pee, I noticed I forced the water to drain from behind the seal...it feels like the rear of the seals are somewhat concave and I'm thinking water drained behind through the seal mounting pins or from somewhere and was holding in the back of the seal. And that possibility COULD mean THAT WATER would flow in and lay on the sill (minus our diverter goodies)? I know we're doing alot of surmising....hopefully it will lead to the TOTAL cause of 'watery doors'! Let me know what you think based on my thoughts/suggestions. Duder ....heading for the FRIDGE!!
Duder, I agree with your analysis of the thickness issue. I checked the seals and they are very pliable and probably did close off the drain holes I thought the rings were creating. It is very tight in there when the doors are closed. Initially I was thinking tubes, like you used, but I couldn't find anything suitable. I will have to get some tubes and replace the O-rings. Ultimately if water is behind the seals that is not a good thing. It would seep in around the mounting pins and rust the doors where the pin holes are located. Having any water collecting on the seals can't be good for long-term oxidation issues. We need to continue with the experimentation and find a way to ensure regular drainage of rain water. With the colder weather coming that water on the sill will turn into ice and cause a whole new set of problems. Dennis
DNY....Observations: Not real important but I noticed yesterday there were "deposits" on my RT front sill, looked like a fine powder that I'm very sure are deposits from water entering the area. Also, next time you open your front doors, please notice the charcoal-black colored sheets of what I'm sure are sound deadner simply inserted in the inside of the front fenders....you can grab them and they move all around. I'm also noticing the bottoms of the pieces are WET, well not really WET but you can squeeze it and definitely see moisture on your fingers.....which I'm thinking is probably ok since it does not look to be a weather-secured area....I THINK! Just doesn't seem right....wet sheets laying inside the fenders! Your thoughts please, let me know if your's seems wet By the way, if you're interested, I bought my tubing at DO-IT-BEST H/ware, clear, 3/16" O.D., 19 cents a foot, I got 5 feet not knowing exactly what I was going to do. That's all I got. Keep me updated....
Duder, had a good rain here all day Wednesday. I had repositioned the O-rings prior and when I opened the doors water poured out all except the driver's door where the rings are. I still agree that the seal closes off the openings the rings make but it probably takes 24 to 48 hours for that to happen. So, I am deflecting the seal but not in a permanent way like you are with the tubes. I am aware of the sound deadening material inside the fenders-I have seen it. I will check mine for moisture, but if they are wet laying against the metal???? That cannot be a good thing, but I will check and let you know. I have not seen any powder residue anywhere, but my Equinox is silver ice metallic. Maybe that makes it harder to notice? Just wondering. Thanx for the heads up on the tubing. Dennis
Hi Duder, been a while. Busy Fall so far. A couple of things....first I have checked the sound deadening material inside the left front fender and it was NOT damp. It was cold to the touch but did not feel as though it was retaining any moisture. The material is exposed and it may be possible that rain water enters the fender area but I did not find moisture on the material I checked. I did not check the passenger side. I decided to remove the O-rings on my driver's door and now I get pooling on all four doors as expected. Over the past few weeks we have had several good hard rainfalls but the amount of water collecting on the sills seems to be constant. In other words the amount of pooling, I had assumed, would grow with the amount of rain. But, it seemed to reach a point and stop. I mean we had one rain that lasted the entire day but the pour was consistent with a rainfall that only lasts a few hours. Have you noticed that? Anyway I am wondering if when the water collecting on the sill forms a large enough pool it finds a way out onto the ground. I have never found any water in the cabin, or back where the spare is stored. I plan to install the tubing just to prove with my Equinox what you have proven with yours, i.e. that the seals are the issue. However, I'm not sure where we go from here. It does not appear to be a recall concern for GM, and I do not want to alter my seals in any permanent way. I am still at a total loss as to why some of us are seeing this problem and others are not. That simply makes no sense to me. Ok, have a great Thanksgiving with your family and stay in touch. Dennis
DNY....hey buddy, good hearing from you, I figured you pretty much did what I did....because of the weather, put ol' leaky in the garage! I wasn't proving anything further and my SUPER-TUBES keep the ol' gal dry! I'll respond to a few of your observations.... 1. The insulation I found damp was passenger front side. If you really squeeze the very bottom, I think you might feel something. 2. I never had mine outside REAL long but one time I remember opening the rear driver side and a BIG gush rolled out, I immediately reached into the floor but, thankfully it was dry. It really scared me though...I started wondering if it was left outside for a LONG time, would the evil water reach deep within? 3. Let me know when you install the tubes (same as mine?) how it goes...gonna do all 4 doors? Better hurry before freezing sets in! 4. As far as where were going, I'm planning to take mine in for the first oil change and tire rotation in Dec but probably Jan after all the holiday jazz is over with. Gonna ask him what he found out about the leaking (probably nothing) and tell him about our experiments and whatever conclusions we've reached. I think I told you I wrote Chevy cust service sometime ago and they kept pushing me to take it in. I told them I had contacted the Serv Mgr and was waiting for his discoveries plus my scheduled maint. He kept persisting and I finally got rude, told him to quit bothering me, after my dealer visit, I would contact them with the results. I still got my CHEV problem number assigned to my case, I'll attempt to get him at that or just create a new case! Did you ever contact them? Hope so, puts more pressure on them, in turn they pester the dealer to do something! It needs some testing involved or a recall for sure! Again, just remember, If the leakage is NORMAL, why is it only a small (I think) number of us leak and it appears a LARGE number do not! We really need to harp on that question!!!! Hope you had a great Thanksgiving and you will have a great, SAFE Christmas!! Comment on above and keep in touch!!! Duder out...Beer Time!!
Hi Duder, yes, I checked the sound deadening material again. This time on the passenger side, but still found no moisture. However, my hand got dirty so I know that area is exposed to whatever the tires throw up from the road, dust, water, and what doesn't get stopped by the plastic wheel well covers. Moisture may be normal and I just haven't found it yet. Yes, I am still planning to install the tubes and want to get that accomplished before it gets really cold. It was 62 here today so we were out just enjoying the waning days of Fall. I did tell my dealer about the water retention issue, but I have not yet made a formal complaint. I only spoke with the service manager and he was aware of the situation but seemed to think it was normal. You and I know it is NOT. However, I have not spoken to anyone at the dealership since you and I have been in touch and trying various experiments. I want to have a case with evidence when I talk to them about this. Anyway, need to get and install the tubes, and let you know what I find. Garage isn't an option for me. Already have two cars in there, so the Equinox sits outside all the time. Thanksgiving was great. Hope yours was as well. Christmas will be here before you know it. Keep in touch. Dennis
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