Does anyone know why my 96 Honda Accord has trouble starting after sitting.
A 96 Honda Accord won't start after sitting for a little while. After about 15
attempts it starts very rough. As if on 2 cylinders then 4. After it starts, it
will run smooth all day long. It has new plugs, wires,dist cap,
rotor,Injectors, ignition module. It has gas and spark but in the no start
mode the plugs are very wet with gas. Then eventually it will start but very
rough then it smooths out. Can anyone help?
have the spark plugs checked...again...fuel regulator lean or rich..
I've changed the plugs twice. They are getting spark. It will not start only after sitting for an hour or so and not every time. It starts most of the time. When it starts, it will run normal all day and starts every morning. What causes the plugs to get wet with gas? The injectors are brand new. 1 week old so I know they are not leaking.
Just because the injectors are "Brand New", it does NOT mean that they are not leaking, especially if they are an off brand or reconditioned. Also, you would not be the first person to get bad parts that are brand new. During quality control checks during manufacturing, every part is not checked, they pull parts at random off the line to check them. I change all 6 injectors on my 2001 Santa Fe, and 3 of the NEW replacements were bad. I would suspect leaky injectors especially if it is only one or two of the plugs getting gas soaked. It could also be an electrical issue where the electricity is not completely cutting of to the flooded injectors, allowing the injectors to leak until the fuel pressure drops, or a weak or intermittent no spark condition caused by bad wires or bad spark igniters, allowing the plugs the get soaked. Have you changes the coil(s) and wires when the plugs were done, and have you had the car checked for any stored trouble codes? Not every code will always turn the check engine light on.
All 4 injectors have been replaced, the coil. dist cap, wires. The reason I replaced the injectors was because of this situation. But only two plugs were wet previously. It has been running great for about a week then yesterday my girl tried to leave work and it wouldn't start. I pulled the plugs and they all were wet. I sprayed them with carb cleaner, dried them and it eventually started but very rough then smoothed out. We had the head gasket replaced along with the timing belts and wp. The car runs great once started. We can turn it on and off all day unless it sits for an hour or so.. Is there any way to check why the injectors are leaking? There are no codes so I haven't checked for stored ones but I will. Could the Ignition control module be at fault? Thanks.
Just to be clear, are you saying that you replace the 4 injectors only once because of the plugs getting flooded, and you still have the same condition now, or are you saying you changed them again because you still have the same problem? As I said in my first reply, you can have brand new injectors that are bad right from the store. I had 2 bad ones out of 6 that I bought brand new. I also said that it sounds like you could still have electric current going to the 2 injectors that are leaking after the car is turned off. That could be a shorted wire or possibly the ignition control module (which I referred to as a spark igniter in the other post) is going bad or has a short going out to the 2 leaking injectors. You can probably pick up an inexpensive test light made for checking fuel injector current flow. One type plugs right into the connector at each injector (1 at a time) and lights when the current goes to the connector. They used to call them NOID lights but I don't know if they still do. I would start first by having the PC Memory checked for any stored codes, because if there are any it could simplify tracing the problem. If there are none, then your only choice is to use test lights and current test meters & probes to try to trace out the problem. If you only changed the injectors once because of the problem, do not take it for granted that the new injectors are functioning properly because they are new. I just thought to ask, is it 2 plugs or 4 plugs that keep getting fouled now? If only 2 are they the same 2 that were getting fouled before you changed the injectors, or are they 2 different ones? If the same, it could possibly point to an electrical issue like module or short in wiring, possibly crossed connectors) or anything else involving wires and controls. Also, you only mentioned in your last post that you had the water pump, head gasket, and timing belt replaced, so now I also need to ask why? Next I need to ash is are you sure the plugs are being soaked with gasoline and not water when the car sits? You may have a crack in the cylinder head and not had a blown head gasket, and not everyone out there does a magna- flow or x ray test on cylinder heads to test for cracks like they should, A good mechanic would have or a machine shop if you pulled it yourself and took it to them. If you are not sure if the plug is soaked with gas or water, next time you take them out put a match to them and see if it burns. If it's water nothing will happen, if gas the flame will flare and burn the gas right off the plug. Keep me posted.
It is definitely gas. The head gasket was a different issue. So while it was apart I had all the other stuff replaced. The head was checked for cracks and machined. Initially two plugs were wet. So I replaced all four injectors. It ran great for 2 weeks and now all 4 are wet. It seems odd that they all would suddenly go bad after two weeks. Should I test for power on the injectors with the key off to see if there is still current flowing?
Yes, absolutely do check for power at each injector with the key off first since all four are leaking. Worst case, if you have to, you can always pull the fuel rail with the injectors still attached and check them that way for leaks. Just make sure you do it outside or in a very well ventilated garage with a drip tray under the rail to catch any leaked fuel. Another question is did you have the fuel pressure checked? Not saying it is, but possibly the fuel pressure is very high for some reason and maybe forcing the fuel out of the injectors enough until the pressure drops and they seal, and then it won't start until the flood evaporates. Possibly the fuel pump or fuel pressure regulator is shot and causing a pressure rise. I am thinking that if it were my car, first I would check the fuel pressure. Next I would check for power at the injectors with the car off and key out of it. Then I If no power I would drive the car a bit, just enough to try to duplicate the flood condition, and recheck the pressure to see if it is too high or normal. If high I would change the pressure regulator. If it still does it then I would pull the fuel rail and injectors intact and check for leakage over a time period. You could set the injectors into cans or cups to see if they leak. Please keep me posted.
There are no codes. No power to the injectors with the key off. I pulled the rail with injectors intact and no leaks. I'll let it sit to see if they leak over time. I pulled the vacuum line off of the FPRV to see if gas would leak out and none did. The fuel pressure was checked and it was normal. One mechanic told me that if the FPRV was shot it may be flooding at startup and not necessarily leaking when sitting. I'm lost.
Normally a fuel pressure relief valve does not have a vacuum line. The part with the vacuum line is usually the pressure REGULATOR which runs on vacuum. The pressure RELIEF is usually done at a threaded fitting that looks like an over-sized tire air valve. They are called Schrader Valves and a spring loaded needle needs to be depressed to relieve the pressure. So you need to be sure as to which part is which. I am guessing the only way to try to see if it is flooding on start up would be to have a helper activate the key for starting while you observe the spray pattern on each injector and watch for excessive spray. It should look like number 5 and number 4 in the pictures I am attaching. I am also giving you a link to an injector web site that may be able to help you better than I can, but please keep me posted how you make out or if you think I can answer or help you anymore. Here is the web address: http://www.e- automobile.ro/categorie-motor/18-benzina/104-injector- benzina.html
Here is the second pic
Not sure if this will work but here is a link to a google search of fuel injectors, you can right click, copy and paste it into your web browser and try it. https://www.google.com/search? q=fuel+injector+spray+patterns&es_sm=122&biw=1024&bih=719 &tbm=isch&imgil=eg- 7uzOp4QMSHM%253A%253Bb7SXXNkIcORQBM%253Bhttp%2 5253A%25252F%25252Fwww.autogeekonline.net%25252Fforu m%25252Fproduct-reviews%25252F36450-3m-08963-do- yourself-fuel-system-tune-up-kit-2.html&source=iu&pf=m&fir=eg- 7uzOp4QMSHM%253A%252Cb7SXXNkIcORQBM%252C_&usg= __EdWbyqcyTYW7kWIUqPoIqyayASM%3D&ved=0CCYQyjdqFQ oTCNDli5PljcgCFY2ygAodf- UJVA&ei=_O8CVtD3D43lggT_yqegBQ#imgrc=Bq8ALBtsm2KHjM %3A&usg=__EdWbyqcyTYW7kWIUqPoIqyayASM%3D
You're right about the fuel pressure regulator. I got one at a junk yard just to try. Only a $12 gamble. If I try spraying the fuel injectors like that it will make a big mess. There isn't a lot of room to move them back far enough to put a rag down. She drove it yesterday and it ran fine and she's driving it today and so far, it's ok. That's the biggest problem. It doesn't act up all the time. Just when it feels like it. Thanks for your input and I'll keep you posted.
Thanks! Glad I could be of help to you.
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