used liquid glass to seal blown head gasket on 2004 pontiac grand prix car stays cool while drivin but overheats while idle what can i do now or what could it be? I have had to replace water pump 3 times since 2011 can't afford to trade it
bought car in 2010 didn't know about all issues with GM. Began overheating just after
warranty. waterpump went out so i replaced it. drove good then happened agan, this
time it began overheating and blowed headgasket i used liquid glass to seal. it is fine
as long as i am driving it but at idle it began to overheat. what coulld be causing this.
changed thermostat, flushed system am going to flush through and add antifreeze
today. also heat and air blower stopped it will come on if i slam door can you tell me
what this could be. i can't afford to trade it in si I hhave to try to fix if possible.
Overheating problems anywhere in the system often show up during idle. It could be as simple as air in the system, or as bad as a warped head. Sealing the edges of the head gasket where the water was leaking doesn't solve the real problem. The head is probably leaking between the water passages and the cylinders. A compression check on all cylinders is the best test for a blown head gasket or possibly warped head, follwed by a pressure test of the entire cooling system. I think the bad waterpump(s) are a result of the overheating, not the cause. There are waterless antifreeze products on the market (Evans, for example) that will lower the heat range of the engine without causing pressure issues at gaskets and seals, but they are pricey. I would check the compression first and go from there. Last but not least, you have a bad connector somewhere in the heater fan circuit, just check all the harness connections, and make sure there is a good ground to the fan motor. I think this is unrelated to your overheating issue.
Look Online for grade n or grade 40 sodium silicate buy at least a quart. Go to Auto parts store buy thermostat & gasket & 2 Gallons 50/50 antifreeze mix and two heater core by-pass plugs & some old style gasket maker & oil & filter, if oil is milky buy enough to change twice & Spark plugs if steam is exiting the exhaust. If your radiator is new buy a junk yard radiator or buy a good radiator to replace your old one with after the following steps. Use the worse radiator for the application process and cap heater core exit & entrance points from engine and to engine then remove thermostat replace housing without thermostat use gasket maker let cure. 2nd pull off hoses to radiator & remove radiator cap & open radiator drain plug. 3rd take a garden hose pour water in radiator & in motor threw top engine hose watch till all coolant exiting is clear, stop and let drain fully, if coolant was dark buy a flush kit and follow instructions then start over. 4th Replace all hoses except top hose to thermostat, put drain plug back on. 5th change oil & filter if oil is milky. 6th mix the quart of sodium silicate in a gallon water jug (cleaned milk jug) with it half full of water, swirl it around , do not shake it up. 7th pour it in top hose going to thermostat housing , reinstall to hose to radiator, fill radiator with clean water. 8) crank engine, watch for coolant level to drop and add as needed till at full line, let run 45 minutes no reeving, just let it run on its own. if after 45 minutes white smoke is still exiting tail pipe let run longer or if water is still coming out block or head let run, never add sodium silicate to hot engine if another application is needed start over when cold. After each application do as above and flush out engine and radiator as soon as possible without getting burned. Leave hoses and radiator cap disconnected 24 hours or more to cure by air contact, longer if outside air temperature is under 50 degrees. It is also fine if engine is sealed or leaking slowly to drive auto if overheating is not a issue for 5 hours or more, I have done so with great results just leave heater core hooked up and run with the heater on the entire time. Remove old radiator replace with a good one, reinstall a new thermostat, and 50/50 mix, change oil & filter & spark plugs if engine was burning coolant. keep and eye on your temperature gauge if overheating let cool then go again, do not unhook fan motor as some say, also do not add cold water / antifreeze to hot engine and wait after application with engine drained of all water 24 hours or more this is where most fail to use sodium silicate correctly. Do not forget to drain after application, or wait until coolant is cold, must be drained while warm or even hot if you can wear protection and get it done, I just turn it off and undue the drain plug then take a long screw driver loosen the lower radiator hose step back and use a tool to push the hose off and then remove the radiator cap last slowly letting the pressure off before taking it off all the way. If the throw away radiator is working o.k. use it for a few months then re-flush system and use the new one, at this time take the heater core plugs of engine and re-attach the heater hoses. Don't listen to folks saying it does not work on aluminium, done as stated works on all metals, just not rusty that is why you need to flush dirty systems with a kit for better chances of it working. Side note, if your auto has a very large leak and application has worked for the most part. after adding 50/50 mix it is fine to also add 1-2 ounces of sodium silicate as a preventive measure or as additional repair, it is also added to antifreeze from the makers just only at 1% or less. I have had it work for years & years without failure of any kind, most new care old and new and new oem and rebuilt engines that get tested before sold are in-fact ran the first time with this procedure as a break in procedure, and race engine alike, even during the race. If the engine is running good otherwise just run it on until its time to rebuild due to rings or some other issue.
In the above post it should be noted that upon first drain of the coolant system, just drain it from the motor and radiator then flush the radiator and not the motor, just let the motor drain with the bottom radiator hose disconnected from radiator.
I was taught this procedure after having a Honda CRX that warped a head back in the late 1980's just after I bought it new. I rebuilt & resurfaced this head the next three years in a row cause of head gasket failures until my local shop told me this is the last time we can resurface this head, I then told this to an older co-worker who said go to the Pharmacy after work and buy some sodium silicate (I bought a 30 ounce bottle) and come over to my house. I did and we did the above and he picked me up for work and took me home the next few days from work while the car sat empty of coolant, and the head gasket never blew again. I replaced the radiator a few month later. I sold it running great in 2003 over ten years later and at 201k miles. Also I replaced the timing belt twice while I owned it and the water pump looked brand new both times but the last time I did replace it just to be safe.
For those who say I would never use it in my engine, I have news for you, if your shop says $1500 to fix it or buy a new or rebuilt engine or your option is to sell a car otherwise was worth thousands but now only worth hundreds or the cost to repair is more or even half the value of the car there is no reason to tell someone else I would fix it right when the car makers and engine builders are breaking them in with it and it is right when they do so, it has a bad wrap and they do not tell you how to do it so when you try it you do it wrong and have negative results so its bad not good or you would do the repair yourself and save money when you do not know others abilities or money needs their are some people that do not wish or understand mechanics. What all you thought was in-fact wrong about sodium silicate its been in all new engines even the ones not yet assembled in some cases where the manufacturer uses it to reinforce metal to take out small/tiny holes in the metal surface before you buy it to build that motor of your dreams. Use it correct and there will be no damage, use a throw away radiator like the speed shops do, while you never know sodium silicate is coating all coolant passages of your rebuilt engine or new engine. Also for those that say you will never be able to rebuild that motor or I would never buy it to rebuild, they can be rebuilt just as normal, unless its a cash for clunker engine and it was put in crankcase and ran till locked up. How do you feel about all those used car lots buying the cars worth hundreds and selling for thousands after their in-house shop repairs it with it and someone buys it and drives for ten years never the wiser, do all do it correct ? No! They save time which is money and sell as fast as they can, So do it yourself as outlined above and keep your car. Its as a Protectant in the industry of manufacturing Auto parts & engines. For what it is worth there is a huge misinformation online about it.
Added info for the engines that may have a overheating issue, Make sure you cooling system is bleed of all air before glassing your engine if overheating is a why you think a gasket failed, and after glassing engine. look for your cooling system bleed procedures in a repair book. I will be glassing a engine this week. This make & model engine is known to have Gasket problems, They recalled due to it and the new gaskets fail, a new gasket may make it 10,000 or more miles but will fail at some point. This engine has a build issue but if not leaking is a great engine. It has been back to dealer for the new improved gasket and it failed too, this engine takes to glassing and will give many years of service after doing so. Also as a side note some radiators have a valve that is turned to drain and most of these will also have a place to connect a length of hose if yours does put some hose on it to direct the hot coolant away from yourself while draining. when installing the new thermostat & gasket do not use a lot of silicon sealer, I prefer a non silicon gasket maker very thin on both surfaces, which will also help keep it in place while mounting. Some new gasket have a sticky side, most do not need any gasket sealer but a thin layer is fine, Let it cure per package directions. I use a very thin layer, both sides of gasket, main thing is to not use so much it ends up inside the motor coolant, Old style gasket maker you put on thin layer and let it get tacky to the touch without any coming off on you finger then install it. Disconnect battery before working on auto. If removing any engine parts to fix a gasket leak, always change in pairs if one head is leaking, also get them resurfaced, and if higher miles rebuild them, and use new valve push rods they are cheap. Always if you decide to go into your engine follow threw and put it back together, if later you decide to sell it you may actually get better than scrap price for it. when ever I look around for a project I never call if ad says needs put back together, after moisture and insects and mammals get to it its not worth it. Also if you and you friend buy the same car and ten years later he or she still takes care of theirs and sells it for $2500 and yours has been sitting under a walnut tree for the last 4 of those ten years and had 3 oil changes in its life and never changed the trans fluid until it started slipping and parked it, yours is only worth scrap metal price. If you need a car buy it but think about the maintenance cost and factor in cost before allocating enough to buy it. Its better to buy a cheaper car and keep it up.
As for an over heating issue after using liquid glass, My thought are was a product made and sold for this purpose like bars sold in auto section, if so they have so much added junk in it that it clogs up the internal cooling passage ways, block is gone now sorry you used it. sodium silicate is clear with no additives buy it from pharmacy. Your water pump is good. Take radiator to the shop that works on the and see if it is clogged if so get it rodded out to unclog it if the block is fine there is a way to find out but its involved and better to a pro to do it so I will not go into that. Some model GM's have cooling issues, I had a Grand am in the 1980's that had same problem, overheated at idle, it did need a gasket by the time I figured it out. The electric fans run off a sensor and one of those was faulty it would work but not all the time and one ran all the time so it burned up, it had two fans, so when the one running all the time went out the car over heated at idle and after a few time the head gasket blew, ten times out of ten there is a good reason for a gasket failure. I replaced the fans, then the gasket, then it overheated but to the red line I found the bad sensor and replaced it. It was good after that. If your car starts to overheat turn on the heater full blast. Also if you are in heavy traffic a lot invest in a separate trans cooler if its a automatic, better for both the engine and trans. Also you could buy a external oil cooler kit with or without fan, the bigger the better or bigger is better than a small one with a fan. Make sure your air filter is clean. Also check your catalytic converter, engine will or is loosing power if its a cat. If you add a oil cooler you will have more oil in the system and it do a better job. Same for trans but buy the bigger unit. Also most cars come with a radiator that is the basic model, meaning there is always a better radiator, mainly thicker, more flues, holds more, better for cooling. Be sure the thermostat is installed correctly, some have different temp ranges too lower is better for summer and higher is better for winter or lower is better for south regions and higher is better for northern, also a higher temp range stat can help keep it cooler by not letting the cooled coolant from the radiator in until its even cooler so there is some education here to learn whether a stock stat will do just fine or not but can be figured out with some trial and error and always buy the OEM parts the cheap ones are junk.
When draining the sodium silicate added to coolant from engine: Tip: If you radiator has a release valve turn it open while engine is running to drain the system, watch it drain until it slows then turn off engine, now most of the coolant is out of the engine, then remove the bottom hose from radiator and turn it down as far as you can to let the rest out of block, watch your hands the coolant is hot, I did it today without getting burned. Tip: Heater hoses and radiator hoses can be hard to remove after installed for years, I used an old foot long flat head screw driver that I heated up with a torch and made two right angle bends toward the end the last three inches divided, 1 1/2 then moved up to the 3 inch mark made another right angle now it is bent back sorta in a u on end and then dipped it in oil, it slides effortlessly between the hose and metal tube, work around hose and then it pulls off easily. tip: It took over 30 minutes for the engine I glassed today to reach normal operating temperature, I did not mention in other post before that I start to count time the engine is running until it reaches operating temp, I also let it run 3+ hours today, it had no issues running hot, when I changed the oil before glassing the crankcase let out about a gallon of pure green antifreeze then the milky oil last, after the new oil & filter was added I started the glassing I use 32 ounces grade N, when done ther was no sign of water in oil nor did steam exit the tail pipe as it had done before, I should add that before adding liquid glass on the previous oil change & filter I did. I ran the engine for 15 minutes afterwards to gauge the amount of coolant lost to the bad gasket and the oil had turned milky that fast. I changed the oil & filter and After adding liquid glass I lost no coolant to the crankcase, I am now letting it air dry cure (about 3 days starting tomorrow and I do not count the day of glassing as one of those days air drying, start counting days on the next day), I flushed the radiator before and after. Next I will install the new thermostat. Since oil looks good then after the air dry I will add new coolant mix, and drive, I will be adding 1-2 ounces sodium silicate per gallon to coolant. then after a few weeks changing the oil & filter and using the mobile 1 synthetic I have used since 2001 on this engine and keeping an eye on oil and levels & temperature of the coolant. The gaskets for this engine are the worst ever but when they do hold like mine did till 240,000 miles they are hard to beat as the only part it has needed is a water pump and its a 1998 and the pump went on 2015. the engine purrs with no odd sounds.
I should add that when this truck was three years old it was recalled due to intake & timing chain gaskets and were replaced and at that time had not leaked any. when it did start to leak it was burning coolant ant a rate of about a half gallon a month for about 3 years until it got worse and leaked in the crankcase, at that point I found it that day and drain all fluids and changed the oil & filter, until I glassed it, so there would be no damage to lower end.
No water made it into the oil or burned in the exhaust as it had done before liquid glass. It sealed upon first engine run and never ran hot for 3+ hours without a thermostat. It runs very smooth. No leaks. I had already installed a new water pump because it had a very slow drip from the fan mounting stem, it had not ever ran hot. Since I was removing parts I also replaced the upper & bottom radiator hoses and serpentine belt and shroud clips. And checked all electrical connections. I will leave the heater bypass plugs in place until winter. I will run a 80/20 mix water/antifreeze as well during this time and check each time I run it for steam out the tail pipe or signs or water in oil. If you want you could drain the system after each time its driven if there is not any sign of leaking to keep water from just sitting in the engine during extended time between driving. I have always changed my oil on time and now after these few extra oil changes it looks as clean as new oil. I will keep an eye on it. I noticed the problem the day it started and Glad I did. If your oil has water in it do not run it and drain the motor of coolant and change the oil and filter, turn it over to coat the internals with new oil to keep it from rusting inside, then get your gaskets or your liquid glass (if its older or has known gasket issues or stuck on the side of the road) then do the repair.
Dude... Amphetamines are bad..
Good read though... Interesting stuff... Really makes me want to try and rebuild an engine and use everything you said above..
Thank you Enginecreator for your in depth explanation of a situation I am having at this time. My newly bought (older..2001) Ford Explorer Sport has a blown head gasket. I unknowingly drove it with radiator cap loose. Had it for 5 days..overheated and gasket is blown and/ or block cracked. Milky muddy oil to top of oil stick. It has been sitting here for 4 months. I may be able to sell it for 500 (if Im lucky.) But was told by a mechanic that if procedure with sodium silicate is done properly the car can be fixed. My concern is all Ive been reading that this car will not last more than a year and highway driving is not advisable. Heat cores will be blocked ..and eventually all will be blocked. Im sure that is why you have gone in so much depth on how to do this procedure correctly. I dont know much about cars but I would tend to agree that the possible truth regarding silicate is not being told. I can beleive that but the fact that this substance will eventually block all cracks makes sense to me too. How much would I expect to pay a mechanic (friend) plus items necessary to do this job? Thanks!
Its time consuming, basically have to baby sit it, if done correctly Remember this is not a fix all, that a shop will do for you, it does come with some risk if not done correct and as you point out may not last forever (because of the plastic gaskets used today they keep wearing in other places) takes a day then wait til it cures (I have let mine sit a week), then a day to button it all back up and run it and it has to be watched while ran to check all the vitals. understand that the longer you can run it with silicate the better, you would have to put a gallon or more in to clog up the passages. That ford has plastic gaskets, running without cap on tight should not of run it hot unless all coolant escaped unnoticed, it could of already had the gasket issue showing itself and actual did because all the V-6 f-150 & Explorers did from the factory it was just a matter of time. its not really suppressed info rather just not talked about a lot but there are some folks that know about it. Example: you go to the drag races and in between a run by a car you notice they are pulling the heads off fixing something all in 20 minutes and they are back up for a second run. You do not know much about cars but you may know that gasket sealer does not cure in 20 minutes but silicate seals in seconds sure they rinse out the motor before it fully cures but residual is left behind an they do not use thermostats. How did they do this? Sure they build their engine before, during and after a race, and they can get a new block if they need it but it has hundreds or more rebuilds on it, a street car does not need all those rebuild and if it did just replace the gaskets with a superior brand and be done with it. If you have the money or time or ability put high quality gaskets on it stay away from cheep'os and factory get some made for performance, call around to some speed shops and tell them the gasket issue and see if they sell any made to remedy the issue, remember here as-well if its run hot they will fail too because the heads are aluminum alloy. If your issue has exhaust going into radiator coolant too then this needs new gaskets anyway, when you here needs head gasket it ran hot know that the head has warped 100% and 10% may have cracked too and 10% just blew a gasket without any other reason unless its a cast iron head then it could be cracked too 60-80% of the time, machine shops can resurface them pressure check them, in my opinion its a waste of money, time, put some new heads on it, those resurfaced heads that were warped before from ran hot, the gaskets are going to fail again within 20,000 miles, I tried it too many times just believe learn from my wasted money, new heads!!! Also if the gasket issue is bad enough to turn your oil milky in just a few minutes of running get new gasket for your mechanic friend, if money is low you can get by almost just as long with new gaskets only as you can resurfaces heads too. If your friend is a mechanic tell him you need help and offer to help him with your expertise and/or trade work. Silicate saves money but not time doing it for the long term, its faster to put on new heads (if its affordable). Shop fees are higher but parts cost are less, shops would rather just replace. Sorry you bought the lemon Explorer. Just for thought Explorers also have automatic transmission problems (all of them) even if standard rebuilt, hard to fix stupid without an after market trans so if you do not know its been fixed already there you go. I hope you drained all coolant and replaced your oil before it sitting 3-4 months, if not your mains could be rusty, may be worth pulling the oil pan to see. If its going to continue to sit drain the rest of coolant and oil and replace the oil and filter and not the coolant till after you fix it. Nothing worse then coolant in the oil, well a bunch of metal shaving is. Also remember the stuff in the stores using silicate or sounds like it does have up to 90% other products that yes will clog up the motor and your radiator but 100% silicate done right will not and is fine for the highway as I drove to work for years 90% hwy & interstate never had a problem. Let me be clear if you can fix it with money do so and only do so as written above if you have no other choice and I do not accept any responsibility for anyone that does so. Just so all knows.
Wow! Amazing ...thank you for all that! Actually..I do know the thermostat housing is cracked and is a def. problem on these cars. So I believe you just answered my real question. Do I need to invest more money into a car that likely has other hidden issues ..At 200000 miles and a car that was a likely lemon when I bought it I think I will stick with my little Saturn until I save enough money to purchase an SUV in good condition. That was 2100 dollars down the tubes. I can get 600 for it next week. Think I will take the 600 and use it for a more promising cause. Can u suggest a dependable mid size SUV for me and my kayak to slip in the back?
I don't think I know anyone..even the mechanic who would do it "correctly' for 100.00 would baby it and care for it like u explained. It would have to be their own car and I'm certainly no mechanic. So I will chalk this up to an unfortunate experience and let this car go. You are extremely informative.
Now after the silicate is cured you do not have to baby it. Do a internet search for any auto you are thinking about so you know of faults others already know about. I also search craigslist for infor after seeing the same make and model over and over with same issue, stay away from those, they also loose value fast.
I will take your advice when considering my next car. You have been a tremendous help to me. Thank you so much. Perhaps to consult with you again!! My deepest appreciation!!!
PS... I will keep all your info. on hand. Someone else may benefit from it as well.
Hello ...Its me again I am going to try silicone silicate in my car. I understand I can get this at local CVS . Can you please tell me exactly the type and how much of this chemical I will need for my 2001 Ford Explorer sport SCH 4.0 engine? This will be from the pharmacy I assume. Thank You Much...Deb
Quart, maybe shy a few ounces, depends on the leak, if its a small leak a quart is enough for V8. For lower intake or head gasket issues I would use a few ounces shy of a quart, leave a little in the quart size bottle and after its all done throw that few ounces in with the antifreeze and leave it in there. I use a half quart or a pint in a 4cyl. Its grade N sometimes it does not say its grade N (most times say nothing but stuff you have to be a chemical wizard to understand), It should have some other information on the bottle. Its not silicone silicate (not sure if that was a typo) but instead Sodium Silicate (wt. Ratio SiO2/Na2O = 3.22) Density = 41.0 Be CAS 1344-09-8 Grade 40 Most liquid sodium silicate has a ratio of 3.22 parts silica to one part sodium oxide. Its not going to say Liquid Glass but did so years ago. The stuff in the auto parts store and wallie world may say something similar to glass but those have little sodium silicate and the rest is solid materials that will clog stuff up you do not want clogged. Remember only use on a cold engine, mix the sodium silicate with some water before adding it to system then fill the system as much as it will hold before starting the engine and add water as it needs it then when full put the cap on. The glassing happens fast once it reaches the correct temp so you do not want it poured in a hot engine and glass all in one spot. You want it to be everywhere in the coolant before it gets hot so it will glass all the internals first, since that is where the heat will be first as the engine is heating up, by the time the radiator is hot enough to take glass the glassing is done and the radiator is safe.
Also understand auto's loosing coolant to the oil will unfortunately burn up those spark plugs getting wet and need replaced or at least cleaned and tested for ohms leaking, this is not noticed as much while the engine is loosing coolant and pressure into that cylinder but after its plugged (glassed) and not leaking or loosing pressure it may need that plug replaced. I just done one this week, before it ran o.k until sitting all night it lost water to the oil then if it was drained and put it new oil and water it would run o.k so after glassing it and next start up it had a low idle would not pull itself and would die when in gear and blow out black smoke from tail pipe, so not one to question myself on the glass I checked everything else, turned out it had thrown a code then blew that fuse so after replacing the fuse I saw the code and knew that it leaked into the cylinder I checked the spark plugs and one was bad, after replacing it runs great, so if you find out it runs like pooo afterwards do not get discouraged, Just think like a engine, in my case the plug stopped firing and the code shown itself and then the fuse blew covering up the issue and either the bad plug was caused by the coolant or just went bad and also just so happen it was the one that the gasket failed on too and the computer overcame it all readjusted everything to keep it running and after the glassing it ran bad so I found the bad fuse, replace the plug and erase the code, you can go to auto-zone to erase codes. It runs good. While searching for the issue I also removed and cleaned the IAC, MAS, Throttle Body & those gaskets, checked all the connections and plug wires and replaced the Battery & terminals, used some contact cleaner on all the electrical connections I could find or get to and coil pack was damp from all the humidity here in AL and used dielectric grease on all those too, It just needed the plug but it was due for a cleaning and checking and as it turned out the battery failed the load test.
Hello EC I ordered a gallon yesterday off eBay...rather to be safe tan sorry. The silicone silicate off eBay said 37.5 type water glass...auto repair head gaskets. Paid 30 including shipping. A local mechanic/neighbor is going to do this job. He seems to know how it should be done. However I am bringing your info. with me .. I see the head thermostat housing is cracked..maybe the reason for overheating in first place..so buying a new one as well. I will ask him to check about various gaskets as u mentioned but do not want to spend more than 300 for this job. (it may not even work) I only need this Explorer to keep me going while I look for a more dependable car. He is charging me 100.00. but more may be necessary. PS if u have any dependable (model..make)..suggestions on a car/SUV that will fit my kayak inside I would appreciate it....... Anyway... I would be thrilled if this silicone fixes my explorer for a long time but how could I know? It might just freeze up anytime anywhere from the .I just don't know.
You have given me So Much info....All this will go along with me when he starts the work but I cant tell this guy what to do (right away) He suggested the silicone in the first place and said to me "it has to be done the correct way or it wont work" So I am hoping hes is correct but will bring ALL your information just in case. (So much to consider)
Some people have their own routine that they know worked for them. A few tips: If oil is milky change it and filter first, never use after engine is hot, let cool down first, take out thermostat, I would cap heater lines, Flush out radiator, I let this last one run 4+ hours and did yard work while I checked on it here and there (radiator full, engine temp, any odd sounds ect.).
Just be sure its understood: Glassing works best without any anti-freeze left in the cooling system. I always make sure I use a running engine and use a water hose to force all coolant out of it. I also when draining the liquid glass fluid after-ward will let the engine run while draining out the coolant to let the water pump help get all of it out of motor just before letting it air dry. Never glass a engine when its already hot, this is very important. Start the glassing when cold.
As a follow up: It has been nearly a year now and the glassing on the truck mentioned above has not leaked a drop, I have not had to add any anti-freeze at all. Oil is still like new, there is no symptoms at all. It still runs great.
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