Heads torqued wrong!!!

100

Asked by Apr 01, 2015 at 10:10 AM about the 2001 Subaru Outback Limited Wagon

Question type: Maintenance & Repair

If my head gaskets was torqued wrong when repaired would it eventually run hot but
NOT leak anything?????? Really need some help here....2001 Subaru Outback AWD

25 Answers

6,960

Improper torque? I suppose they would leak. It could take time. they could lose coolant to the outside and even mimick a water pump leak. They could also in an extreme case, leak compression gases into the cooling system. This can displace the coolant and force it out. Your gaskets may be included with the ones that are failing on many subarus. The gasket just does not seal. The procedure for assembly is different than the service manual when they are corrected by the independent subaru specialist. They actually use a different subaru part. Using aftermarket parts costs alot more and unnecessary parts are included in your needs list by people who are not factory trained. First thing they say, because they think it is right, is that you need to buy a complete gasket set and a complete set of bolts. (Way overkill) Ask your subaru independent garage. They saved my friends cars several times. They have devised methods that correct it, use the highest quality parts, and redesigned the procedure. Watch out for piston noise and bearing failure. let them inspect and then give a smarter estimate. A low mileage used engine could even be the low cost repair for a 13 year old subaru.

100

What do you think about smart-service.com for head gaskets....There suppose to be better/ different????

6,960

Of course, they would tear it down and update the areas of concern with better parts and procedures before installing it. Good time to correct those unexplained oil leaks at the upper head frames if you have the 2.5L

100

There are no leaks!!!!!!!

6,960

I havent seen that. I did not have to look any further after talking to my friend at Roo-pair in tacoma. Sealed it right up. Took back the BS fel pro set and bolts. Only one mistake, used a chinese aftermarket used water pump instead of a subaru one. After these many experiences with 2 subarus, I can say for definite, call Roo-pair ! , I tell people now. Also, if your thermostat does not fail proper testing. the subaru part is better than a new one.

6,960

I had to lay beneath the 2.5L engine while my friend had it full finally. Lay there for a half hour before I saw any leak. we had it idling part of the time and at 2000 rpm part of the time. after a 1/2 hour, I saw the coolant oozing very slightly and vaporizing immediately. I thought the water pump weep hole was leaking and surface tension was carrying it back. A shop towel proved it was the gasket.

6,960

The original gaskets are like steel sheets and overlaid with a paper like substance. when you get it apart, you see the paper like substance has breaks in it and there is no polymer or inlaid sealing material like most late model cars use. The gasket they used a few years prior, fits and seals with an augmented procedure.

6,960

Also less expensive, you replace fewer parts, and you get the additional parts the aftermarket fails to include in their sets. You have to get ("the right stuff") sealer for sealing the head upper frame and valve cover anomalies, according to service bulletins I have read about sealing any aluminum engine part. It is non acid cure, unlike RTV. But the method and procedures they do are not in any book. That's where their tenacity has created them a market niche.

6,960

When I mentioned bearings and pistons, it is because they have been experiencing engine noise as early as 70K.. After your reseal, lets say 30 to 60 days imagine it starts rattling at start up and knocking at temperature. THEN, you go look at your bearings and try some kentucky windage only to find out the piston design is a space saver. they change. Then they dance. can lead to earlier failure they say. "Skirtless" design

6,960

I would want to know that before I started reassembly, considering, idlers, tensioners and timing belt with water pump were all being done. THEN I find out this tap was starting and in a month it was a rattle, then at 60 days it was a piston slap.

6,960

Smart service .com looks right. appears they use similar. I paid less for genuine subaru parts that were proven to work, just sayin.

6,960

As i said, the procedure they developed at roo pair would change the assembly procedure, so parts alone ? Then it's up to the courage and tenacity of your tech. I would also mention the 2.5L with tensioner rattle can be updated with parts from a TSB. improved "boss" on a small cast aluminum piece bolts on before the tensioner and belt. parts were available from genuine subaru website ask also for the 2 bolts of different length. otherwise your tech has to fashion them himself.

14,025

Sometimes, the best course of action is to take your car to a qualified professional. This is one of those times. Unless you tell me otherwise, its been six weeks since your first post. I'm sure that you want to get your car repaired and get back on the road with a reliable set of wheels. If you're not supremely confident about either yourself or your current garage, I would definitely recommend switching to a new mechanic someone who is referred to by a friend. You'll save money going independent, and if you can't find a reference, take your car to the dealer. You'll be back on the road immediately and you won't worry about breaking down.

1 out of 1 people think this is helpful.
6,960

So, you are right saying let word of mouth lead you to a technician or a shop that successfully repairs your kind of car all the time. Trust and fair business relationship you find is a 2 way street. Subaru owners can be very loyal if you give them what they must have. If you can do it faster cheaper and make a profit? They love you.

14,025

Yes, it's definitely a two way street. My mechanic has taken care of my cars for more than 10 years. If you cannot get a reference, take your car Subaru dealership, they may charge you a little more but your car will be fixed perfectly the first time.

14,025

Sure, unfortunately, shoddy work can show up anywhere, you can get anything fixed. You just have to take it to the right place.

6,960

The point being that the factory part causes the failure, the replacement part causes the failure, the aftermarket part causes the failure as long as you follow the manufacturers instructions. These guys left the dealer, started a shop, used their ingenuity, experimented, and developed a correction for the procedure and a part that is not specified for it, but seals nonetheless............So, the answer to the asker's question is best recommended they search, but need to know what to ask, and who would know, and i know, it's the independent subaru shop, or someone willing to do enough research and find the answer. It is way too much labor to have to do as a comeback. And selling more headbolts does not do anything but increase headbolt production.

14,025

A reputable garage will do the work over if you paid them to do it and they failed to either install it correctly or have the right tools or parts. What you're suggesting is that all of these parts from Subaru are faulty? That does not make any sense or all of the engine head bolts on customer cars would be failing everywhere? I actually met someone who has been part in this manufacturing process of engine head bolts and has been doing this for 13 years and they make head bolts for Ford and Subaru. Again, take your car to a real Subaru dealership. They won't screw around with this and your car will be fixed, period.

6,960

Try re reading what is written there from the very top. The factory assembly results in a coolant loss, inability to find the leak can lead to engine failure. The factory part and procedure are the cause, the gasket. The asker says their "help" untold who, must have torqued it improperly. I gave you the happening I have witnessed using the factory part, the aftermarket part, and was told the car owner was required to buy an additional $60 worth of head bolts. This recommendation changes nothing about the cause. The engines leaked because of the choice of Gasket. They were also failing as long as the factory recommended procedure was being done. It's all there in the posts when I pull up the whole page to its beginning. Try reading it all through again. A subaru owner saves time and money and receives a different type of handling by the independent subaru shop because the technicians who founded it, came from there and said at the time, it was a good place to be from. They then went about determining a set of subaru parts that work and do not add new bolts unless the bolts are used up from a few uses. A good way to understand that is looking at torque to yield bolts and their specs as Mercedes developed them originally. They report their methods of determination.

6,960

I think you are confusing yourself because you change my words around to a different meaning of your own choice as the posts here clearly indicate. reread what you wrote after rereading what I wrote. It is clear and posted here here that when those vehicles leaked originally, the subaru procedure and parts were causing repeated failures. Turning to the aftermarket was also producing repeat failures. They are difficult for people to diagnose without the knowledge and experience. When you follow MFR. recommended procedure, it leaks, leaks with the new part. somebody better start screwing around with it at some point, or the piston slap will be the failure along with the coolant loss. The noise starts after the coolant problem gets fixed. You can read about it if you research it. If you have one, and it starts rattling at start up? Try asking for help, good luck.

6,960

That's really the concern with these engines, the bottom end may survive with piston slap or piston dance but not be rebuildable. The independent shop coolant sealing procedure may be being used in every shop now, including the dealer. But subaru parts choice has to be the way the independent shop carves its market niche.

14,025

So, you're right, it's probably the gasket , they're just using the wrong one. I appreciate that you were there to witness all this, and I did read back through your answers, but, this is a machine, and machines can be fixed. It's true that Subaru had many problems with their head gaskets in the early 2000s, but, in 2010 they solved this problem with the newly designed multi layered head gaskets and have been using them for the last five years. I'll bet you have not heard too many people complaining about the head gaskets issue lately? Well, they can retrofit this multi layered head gaskets to older cars. I've read many other posts online where people have had their head gaskets redone with the update version and are fine. The problem you experienced is with one particular individual garage who may be unaware of how to solve this, that's unfortunate. Again, if you go to an official Subaru dealership or call and get more information from Subaru of America, you'll see that I'm right. Years ago I had an old mechanic who became so frustrated with one of my old 85 T-Bird he threw up his hands and told me the car couldn't be fixed! Well, I discovered that he just didn't know what he was doing and I found a new mechanic who was able to fix my car. If your mechanic cannot do the job, find someone else, there's a whole range of people out there with varying skills and experience, and no one knows everything. You and the person who started this post just has not found the right person to fix the car. Of course, you or that person could always opt to just trade up for a newer model as I imagine that there's a lot of miles on the 2001 car. And, now there's a piston problem that you describe, not good.

6,960

You still havent read what i have written, now, you are saying to me, what I wrote to you. Thanks for the anecdote. yes, I must agree with what I said. Thanks for your patience.

14,025

Sorry, we're not on the same page on this one, good luck.

6,960

The asker can get their coolant loss figured out, they can question those in the industry where they live, and this can lead to them making informed decisions, about THEIR car. If they get a recheck and the repair corrected for free ? thats the point. if they meet better techs? thats also the point and I am glad you agree. If they find that their particular engine is their cause because everything was already done right? Then a car that age may need to update a used engine and use it instead. It is up to their engine builder whomever they choose now having this info. I personally think that is the purpose of this website. sharing info, thanks for sharing your info.

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