1997 Plymouth Grand Voyager Stalled while driving Code 12 & code 43
Wife was driving the van and it died while driving down thw street.
She started it right back up, it is runing OK, but the Service Engine light is now ON.
I did the click of the key to get the Codes and they are Code 12 & Code 43
i do not know what they are, can some one help me with a break down as to what
i need to look at to fix.
Thank You, Allen
12 is distributor reference pulse 43 is power supply to coil excessive resistance in coil Sound to me like the ignition system went kaput. didn't think these had distributors anymore must have to educate myself on the disappearance of the speedometer cable and the distributor now. it's 2013 now, we mustn't let the future get in front of us.
So what do i Buy to fix it ?
Maybe need a coil
Thank You Frank. Do i buy a coil put it on, pull the battery cable to reset the service engine light. Then see if the service engine light stays off ? will this be the Fix ? Thank you, Allen
good thing ajc4406pak, you never mentioned that you HAD a check engine light, and what the printout says. Would be nice what this engine wants to do. Could share this information with us.
You had better take it to a mechanic!!!!!!!!
Next question? Wheres the coil Frank?
Now Regal, we all have to start somewhere, best if we learn by working on our own car rather than the General populations vehicles.
...or be smart enough to know that it is out of your wheelhouse and needs a professional-----$80/hr....$60/hr for a barnyard mechanic.
I took it to a professional he read the codes and it showed a miss fire. He cleared the codes at no charge. He stated if it was the coil it would be good or bad, so he said it does not need a coil. He thinks it might be a cam sensor or a crank sensor that caused it to stall on my wife. He said drive it for 2-3 days and then lets see if the service engine light comes back on, or we will read it again with the scanner. Does this all sound right ? thanks, Allen
This was the right move and sounds exactly right, but if this was like an Autozone scan, well it's only good for what he was able to do plus the reset, a more specialized scan is really needed but you need someone with that scanner as I have one and it's expensive so it's not something including Autozone would allow their employees to mess with, so that would leave a pro shop or dealer and that will tell you if indeed it's a cam sensor or crank, but you did get good and sensible advise. But hopefully it's neither frankly as that is probably something you won't be able to fix because again it gets specialized and for the cam sensor there is a relearn process that needs electronics. There OBD 2 can only do so much and it's really generic but got you in the right place, that's good. Good luck
Did further checking for you and I believe I am a bit wrong on your Plymouth, and this is something that is really a fairly easy fix, cam sensor is basically just a plug in on the side of the block. All you need is a wrench and a torque wrench, a Harbor Freight would be cheap if you don't own one and their within usually plus or minus 5 which isn't bad for this kind of job. It's really so easy you might think about just doing it as it did sound right or what your choice, but to do the job I was way wrong and thinking a little more further tech wise down the years but in 97 lucky for you. Raise the hood and locate the crankshaft position sensor on the bottom of the passenger’s side of the engine block, in front of the crankshaft pulley. If this is losing you grab a cheap manual at where you got the scan for a bit more detail like where the heck crankshaft pulley, I hope I am not being insulting...!! Depress the push-on clip located on the tip of the sensor’s wiring harness, where the harness attaches to the sensor, then pull the wiring harness off of the sensor. Remove the single retaining bolt that secures the sensor against the engine block with a wrench, then pull the sensor straight out of the block. Slide the new sensor into the engine block until the sensor rests against the block, then install and tighten the sensor’s single retaining bolt to 105 inch-pounds of torque with a torque wrench. Press the sensor’s wiring harness connector onto the electrical fitting on the sensor until it clicks into place. Done, dam that is simple and the torque part, 105 lbs is what 5 lbs more than what you would tighten a lug nut on to spec. so basically skip buying a torque wrench and just tighten it like you don't want your tire to fall off and just a little more....LOL how's that for explaining....
Just to clarify this is crank shaft sensor
...a quarter turn from braking, if it 'goes real easy' you've fractured the thing....step away, say 'I didn't do it', and no one will be the wiser, the next victim will think it's his fault.
Answer are not always just a simple one liner as you can see, I checked on the cam sensor and though it to is not as complicated as I first was thinking wrongly because I don't work on Plymouth brand or really that old generally but the bottom line is I believe it is more than likely the crank sensor as I had to get hold of a buddy who is in my opinion the man and working still as a pro tech and he said,..... Are you getting any trouble codes? if you are maybe getting a P320 for crank sensor, try replacing the Cam Shaft Sensor, this 2 sensors communicate but the ECU registers it as a Crank Sensor code. ..Good Luck........ OK, so that probably doesn't mean much to you but what you could do is remember that code and if you go back and get another scan and it shows that code now you have the real understanding of what a pro thinks about what the code means and it's the reverse of what it says or means, does that make sense? I hope, I know a lot but this guy makes me feel stupid sometimes, he is that knowledgeable. And or you could just replace both as I have found out both are basically something you CAN DO...To replace a cam sensor. its mounted top of the front of the engine [front meaning fan belt end] its covered partialy by a bracket. If you grab that cheap manual it will give you enough info.......replacing both makes sense as my friend said that these are the two on the Plymouth that communicate with the ECU, electronic control unit, it all makes sense to me, hopefully for you too..... Good luck Pal
LOL, thanks Bob, you kill me brother dam funny.....LOL literally laughing
And I am sincerely sorry for all my past snide comments, I have made some offending remarks that may have been hurtful to some or many and that was regretful, so again I apologize. Momentary lapse in reason............................I suppose.>>
Actually had this happen to me, it was a stud that my co-worker had set-up for me to enjoy. He knew the stud was going to brake, and I'd be tied to a stud extraction and replacement then...not funny in the least...when you're on the other side of the coin.
We all know regal, please do not torture yourself. We ALL have momentary lapses in judgement. think "step away from the vehicle" and if you are still not able to control your happy zone "We're sorry, we are going to have to impound the vehicle" as spoken by a cop shining his maglite up your nose~
...always the pineapple grenade. You know grenades haven't looked like that since korea. What is that cartoon, "Motorblock makes good?"
Bob, when your email that a response to a question came in, and I started reading it, it reads, "Actually had this happen to me, it was a [stud that my co-worker had set-up for me to enjoy]." Well literally my eyebrows went up a notch as I didn't know and really it makes no difference to me as I am not homophobic but to come out know? And then you followed with further details, "He knew the stud was going to brake, and I'd be tied to a stud extraction and replacement" Huh, wow sounds ruff way to ruff.....LOL
Thanks to all you guys for the Help. Some of the comments were funny.... I am an old car guy, 68 Charger 383 4spd. these are easy to me ( i am from the old school) So i have a good sense for mechanics just not any of them with a computor.....Ha..Ha... I think i will buy both sensors for 35 bucks each and replace them. i will skip the 65 buck coil. Once again Than You all for the sometimes Funny Help. Allen Calender, Berkley Mich.
Hey, you are very welcome and I have my favorite manual sitting right here, a 1969 Motors Repair Manual, covers all the muscle cars, and you don't find manuals like this anymore. Really glad that it all came around finally but sometimes it just what it takes, step by step and you are right if you have the skill and for the money replacing both sounds like an hour or so maybe a little more?? Also you are obviously a good person because we rarely to never get replies ((or least of all a thank you)). So, what's that leave, me lately, picking on one of the guys, regretful as I stated. Good luck to you brother Allen from Mich. and again good luck from Tacoma WA
this mechanic who was mean by sticking me with the bad stud had Clean tools, that he wiped down after using. Hated being a mechanic and went to a drafting job, I was a draftsman, fed up with office politics and wanted to dig in with all four paws with my newly acquired mechanic job workin for a bunch of crooks...needless to say three years was long enough...thankless job...like being an engineer.
I am really quit happy at the moment, what could be better, a problem I believe that is well on it's way to solved and a Thank YOU, WOW, for me that's all I ever need.
Well last night at a card game with friends my wife says the old van (212,000) still runs rough and shakes......this is the first i have heard of this. So now i am going to put the Coil pack on the 3.3 engine 1997 just to see if it will shut her up.....she was complaining saying are you waiting for it to die on me the fix it..... Hey guys do you think this will fix a rough idle.....i did have a code that said missfire in ignition system.....i have never put a coil on a new car(dont forget i am old school 68 Charger 383 4spd ) does this sound like the problem it does have 212,000 miles on her.....( runs fantastic most all the time for me). Thank you for any and ALL help.... Allen Berkley Mich.
@ajc4406pakistan, Have you pulled the plugs to see what's been goin on with your combustion, if it's a roughie...OIl soaked, black, white or just fine? A compression check would tell you the weakest of your cylinders, if 212000, like you say, should have at least 8:1 compressionj left--wheeesch- and your smogcheck? exempt? I'd be more concerned with ball joints and control arm bushings wearing out and sending you into a ditch than runnin rough.....did you win the game at all, or was it a bust?
Suspension was done at 180,000 spark plugs and wires also ( top of the line stuff) what does the O2 sensor do ? i have the original still on the van.
An oxygen sensor is an electronic device that measures the proportion of oxygen (O2) in the gas or liquid being analyzed. OK your thinking and? They help determine, in real time, if the air–fuel ratio of a combustion engine is rich or lean. Since oxygen sensors are located in the exhaust stream, they do not directly measure the air or the fuel entering the engine. But when information from oxygen sensors is coupled with information from other sources, it can be used to indirectly determine the air-fuel ratio. And this just might be your problem, without going and checking you may have two, one at the front of your exhaust engine end and one at the rear of the exhaust. This is really a good thought looking back here. They look like this and you will need a special socket that you can get at like Harbor Freight for cheap that has a slot on the side of the socket for wires. really easy to change out and I don't think the sensor is all that expensive.
Hey Thanks, do you think i should change the coil ? i do have one in hand that i bought last week ? or should i skip the coil and take it back ? (56.99) Thanks AL
Well, I'm not really sure, is that a coil pack or one individual coil, I am not where I can easily look things up at the moment and being you have some time to return it as is still in the box, I'd hold on and maybe, I can get back to where I can do some checking on the O2 sensor and see if your vehicle had any type of error code for 02 bad, or just a check engine, I always hated those warnings, they say check engine but for what? I will do some checking for you as soon as possible but you know that is something I didn't even think of and it would cause you these problems. There's a way to check them but I can't recall off the top so if you see if the cost of buying these is worth it, well sure can't hurt much replacing them. Let me get going, today's my BD and I'm racing this evening so I'm at the shop getting things put together, so I don't know if I will be able to get back to you today, but do a little research on your sensor, like cost mostly to see if it's a reasonable cost to fix as like I was saying sure wouldn't hurt. I'll get back to you ASAP
I called a friend of mine and he was telling me how to test them with a high impedence DC voltmeter and what he was telling me, is not something I can quickly explain. But he did say that many times the check engine lights are set to come on at intervals determined by the manufacturer, like 45K miles to get people in and have their cars looked at by the dealer, doesn't always mean something is wrong, I have known that. The other thing that popped in my head was sealant and something to remember before I forget, when you re-install an O2 sensor, the sealant has to be O2 SAFE, I have made the mistake myself before and killed the sensor in no time, I remember that as I installed three before I figured out what I did wrong, used regular silicone and that was what was killing them, has to be O2 safe. Just thought I'd mention that before I forgot just in case you do change them...! The electrical test is the only way to test them and I do remember know after talking with my guy that a scan is not reliable because of so many different factors involved with that sensor, like a cracked manifold will give you a false reading, the only way with a scan is to look at the cylinder balance test on the scantool but this is getting deep and checking with the meter while still in the vehicle is technical, I don't know, I will have to get back to you, I do know they are generally good up to 50k but then to it all depends on the vehicle, if it's self powered and on and on. I'll get back, I have to run...sorry I can't just through a quick fix to you, just not my nature I guess...LOL
...guess you lost. and ended up buyin' the farm.
Hey a Big Happy Bithday to Ya.....go have some fun. It has a coil pack, all 6 wires go into it. The O2 sensor runs from 45 to 65 depends on brand i guess. If you get time tommorow see what you can find out. i would like to get this done so i dont get any more yipping from the wife....ha ha Thanks for all your help, AL
Galaxy: Thanks Al, I will and ya, that yipping oh boy, I remember well, that's part why I never remarried...LOL, I'm in my car, breaking the law and texting, off to the track and see if this old fool can kill me some youngsters...I will get back at you and thanks againn..
my Gary, you're full of piss and vinegar today. Anything different with today? or is it pretty much like yesterday?
Hi Al, I have not forgotten you or this problem. I have thought about this quit a bit and so far two sensors have been replaced, and not good results. The thing that bothers me from this end is, I could sit here and keep suggesting all sorts of parts and just basically keep throwing parts at the car until the entire engine is rebuilt and that's not right. It's so difficult to try and diagnose a car's problem without being able to see or hear the vehicle. This site would be so much more effective if we used web cam and audio plus scan online to look at these problems and I have talked to some friends about maybe doing something just like that, but the consensus was it's cost prohibitive, to technical computer wise for the average person, so who knows on that. Thinking back though and the one thing that jumped out at me immediately when we first started this chasing the tail, was those error codes. Those codes didn't look right then and they don't now. Stop, brain spark, OK, now those codes mean something to me but what?? I used to own a Viper and that is Chrysler codes on board self check, NOW I remember, I am so used to the new codes anymore that I had forgotten about those, OK, let me dig and dig and dig etc. back to the days of the Viper and that will take a minute..... I am going to figure this out or you are going to quit me or you'll honestly believe I am insane to go to this much trouble for someone I don't know..LOL This kind of repairs makes it such a challenge and if you haven't figured me out yet, I love a challenge of any type and I rarely quit on something. I can't tell you how many hours I have spent sleeping under cars,, sounds funny but I have had some of my best naps right there. I be back, I am off to the shop and getting in my file cabinet and pulling out all the stuff I have that goes back to my Viper, that will get me in the ball park.... I WILL get back to you ! I am starting to think a PCM problem which controls all of your idle and ignition stuff, air flow ect. I recall some problems I had that now are ringing the bells with that damn Viper and I ended up having to get the PCM re-flashed. Let me get going Al, it might be the notorious Chrysler throttle body problem also, now I am starting to get into Chrysler gears, been awhile,, I'll get back... bye
Alright, I'm tired already and it's only 12:30 west, I found a couple of things, actually a lot of things, but to get down to it. I pulled out my old Chrysler crap and now remembered why I swore never again to Chrysler, one thing about the late 90's was the way Chrysler kept changing codes, that was a problem but the basics should remain as was, anyhow, those codes, 12 and 43... code 12 Battery or computer recently disconnected (will occur on most cars most of the time, it indicates a low / missing battery happened in the last 50 key starts. Don't worry about it. Code 43, Peak primary coil current not achieved with max dwell time OR 43 Cylinder misfire OR 43 Problem in power module to logic module interface, so well that's some crappy potentials.. Do you know how to get you van to give the code reads?? Are they displayed as like 43 or the blinking count the light flashes? Right now, sense two main sensors have been replaced and your sitting on a coil, I think what you may want to consider is start at the battery, make sure everything is good and clean and tight real tight, I don't know when you changed the plug wires, but maybe check those and always put dielectric grease in each end of those plug wires, it will keep them from corroding and keeps a good spark and makes them a lot easier to remove later on, lots of advantages for cheap. About the coil, I think if you replace that, keep the box and all that comes with it, install the coil, run it for a while and if that's not the problem, then take it back off, clean it up real good and take the damn thing back.. just an idea since you have it might as well try it, they will never know if you don't screw it up !!!! Not insinuating you would but I have personally done some dumb shit stuff with my tools, if you follow me. That code 43 is like one of the last codes I'd care to see as it could be many different things, there is a throttle body problem also in that era self made by the manufacturer, ya really, to check that out, do the following as all this stuff goes to the same box and that's that last of the code 43 mention, There is a very slight air gap seen around the throttle blade of the throttle body. Which get carbon-ed up. Causing the PCM to lose Base idle setting. So it will use the AIS (automatic idle speed motor) to hold and maintain the idle. I would first clean the throttle body. A quick way to see if that's the issue. Just get some spray brake parts cleaner or a spray can of throttle plate cleaner. So having the engine OFF not running. Remove air inlet hose at the throttle body and spray some cleaner on a rag,manually open throttle plate (blade, butterfly) and clean the carbon, goop what ever from the area where the plate rest at idle. Then reinstall intake hose, and restart. NOW you will have to crank it a bit to start so don't worry after starting clear it out a bit (a couple of throttle romps).You may have to hold the gas pedal down just enough so to keep it idling. I have had some that I had to road test to get the PCM to relearn base Idle position. You can install a new AIS motor in a dirty Throttle body and still not fix issue. There are no PCM faults or Secondary indicators for this issue. Well, now that you have spent half a day reading this, you can spend the rest of the week trying this out, I remember almost buying one of these for my ex-wife, I'm a thinking I should have.. Good luck I'm sorry about this being so lengthy but if you can or one can tell me a simpler way to explain this, I'm all ears as this is really screwed way to spend my day and I'm grumpy, sort of self inflicted from yesterday.. See ya
P.S. Double check you install of those previous sensors and make sure you installed them absolutely correctly, I have put them in wrong before and took me for ever to figure it out, sometimes easy to do.
Thought I'd make another suggestion about the above info, it may be easier for you to copy and paste all that into a word document, than going back and forth to the computer, plus you can save the error codes etc. for the future, just a thought.
Forgot to say, I was rereading your posts Al, and you said that, .i did have a code that said missfire in ignition system.....i have never put a coil on a new car(dont forget i am old school 68 , .....that Al, goes with that code 43, and putting in a new coil isn't hard, your engine should be the 3.3L. I'm sorry also about all these posts but this comes to mind as I am doing other stuff, and want to get it to you before I forget and yes maybe I am crazy to be doing this. Of course if you need help with the coil you can be sure I will have something to say..LOL.. Also, while I was screwing with my car today and changing out a fuel injector, it occurred to me that one other thing you should do is to take a long handle screw driver if you don't have like a mechanics stethoscope and take that screw driver with the long preferably skinny shaft, place the handle to your ear and place the other end of the screw driver to each fuel injector and listen for a clicking noise, that will tell you if all of them are working or not, no clicking it's bad. Damn Al, frankly it could be so many different things, sure isn't like the old days that both of use are used to, I just have kept up with the technology from my past career and I am a techy type guy anyhow, always fixing computers and just about what ever. Let me know and I truly do want to resolve this. Believe that !
I miss Llregal....that guy ALWAYS has something to say~ someone was mean to the guy and made him forget that we are going to read this (everyone)....Do not like being the Buick Regal expert...these buggies are cute, but do not own one~....come back gary, plymouth_prowler, rolex24hrs, or whatever you chose to call yourself...we miss you, man~
Had the sam problem on my voyager... ingot same codes.... the computer was over heating and stalling engine untill cool i only replaced the computer and all was good... very common on these vans
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