Why do 911's from 1999 - 2006 go for so much less?
Less than what? Cost is always related to demand.
Those years I find 911's from 20K - 30K. Everything older or younger really takes off in price. I'm new @ Porsches, really trying to educate myself without getting burned, as I did on a 450 SLC 20 years ago.
Classics are sky rocketing in value. New cars are well, new. There is a sweet spot between the two.
That " sweet spot", is it because of assembly techniques? is it because of water cooled problems? that's my question
That is a good question for a Porsche forum but almost all cars become just an old car for a while. There was a time when my E- type was worth little more than pocket change.
Its called the 'Depreciation Curve'. For more mundane cars like mass produced Toyota Corolla, the curve is an L shape, for collectible marques like Porsche, Ferrari, Aston Martin etc, the curve is more of a U shape. 996 model 911's are at the bottom of the U right now.
As a Porsche Club of America member and owner of 9 Porsches over the years here is the REAL answer. The 1999 Porsche marked the first generation of the "water cooled" Porsche. Porsche embarked on a new plan to standardize the assembly and turn huge profits. The result was the lower priced mid- engine 986 model Boxster (Cayman in hardtop) and the "new" 996 model 911 line that went up to 2005. We won't discuss the Cayenne here since it's an SUV. The Boxster was meant as an entry-level Porsche and its base model was about $53,000 new. The 911, on the other hand, was about $68,000. Options could be added to the tune of up to $25,000 plus! The main reason Porsche made huge profits was that from the front view the Boxster and 911 were almost the same cars. They also shared almost the same interior. 911 owners were horrified that a car costing $30,000 LESS could be mistaken for the mighty 911. The shared front end with the "fried egg" headlights, bumper styles and similar interiors has caused the 911's of this era to be undervalued. Porsche made a bundle of money by selling the cars with similar parts, but 911 owners were pissed off! So in 2005 the Boxster and 911 had a facelift to make the cars different in appearance. If you want a 1999-2004 Porsche 911 it's the best time to get one. Under the skin is all 911 and a Carrera 4S is a dream to drive. I should know as I own a 2002 Carrera 4S. I got it with excellent service history and 4-page CarFax of dealer only service. Another issue is the dreaded IMS bearing failure and rear main seal. The IMS bearing failure will cause a total engine meltdown but only affects 5-8% of all cars. Usually, cars that aren't properly warmed up and have dirty or cheap oil are affected. If the car you're considering has had these items repaired then buy it. It will be "bullet-proof". I got my 2002 4S with high miles for $20,000 and it cost $98,000 new. All 911's before 1999 were air-cooled and the prices are going up like crazy. This first generation of water-cooled Porsches will eventually go up in value just as the "hated" 912, 914, 924, 944, 968 and 928. These cars all experienced massive depreciation and are now going up in value. Buy a 996- 911 and have the Porsche experience at a fraction of the price.
In short you're saying that a Porsche 911 of that vintage, that has high miles and good service records and the IMS situation taken care of, can be a very good car. Your answer was excellent informationaly.
That's exactly what I'm saying. 911's have been known to run up to 300,000 miles with no major issues as long as they are properly serviced and not abused. My 2002 Carrera 4S just turned 154,000 miles and uses a little bit of oil. That's it. I would suggest looking in the (PCA) Porsche Club of America classified ads for a car that's been well-taken care (That's where I found mine) OR local Porsche dealers for nice trade-ins.
So that's the reason the service manager at the local Porsche dealer steered me away from the 2000 911 with only 12,000 miles on it and, there was a cam actuator leaking oil and he mentioned that the vehicle had the "IMS bearing possible problem that needed to be researched prior to purchase " I guess that's where really good records come in very handy.
Guru9Y1XN, a car with only 12k miles on it is not a great car to buy for driving. It will likely have years of deferred maintenance and all kinds of issues like perished and cracked hoses, cracked and mishapen bushes, bad tires and battery, dried out leather. Only buy a low mileage car if you intend to only garage and polish it. If you intend to drive it as designed, then get one that has averaged 5-10k miles per year and has a good maintenance history.
Andrew is correct. Stay away from a "garage queen" that hasn't been properly serviced has crazy low miles. If the car has averaged even 3k miles a year chances are everything is ok because it's been driven and enjoyed, as cars should be!
If you can afford the IMS fix (about $2,300) and the cam seal fix then it might be a great car. Avg price would be about $25,000 for a car with only 12k miles. See if you can work a deal and have everything fixed if you like this car. There are LOTS of them available. I looked 4 months until I found mine. Lapis Blue Metallic, all leather, 6-spd with a great service history.
Here is my car!
Yeah with all the other fixes the dealer was suggesting, they came to about $9500.00 without the IMS fix, so $30,000 out the door plus another $12,000 (IMS included) in fixes. I'm going to keep looking.
That is another reason why older luxury cars depreciate in value - repair costs. Keep looking for a car owned by a true believer who spared no expense in the upkeep. Too many people skip the needed repairs and maintenance and then sell the cars with a lot of issues.
Which dealership is selling 17 year old 911's?
Here's an answer from Porsche engine repair shop perspective: Older air cooled models were indestructible, Porsche almost went bankrupt because they would run, and run, and run...They were made from great quality materials and properly designed. Porsche sales were super low at the time so in order to save the company Porsche had to come up with a plan. Then they started making water cooled 996, Boxster, and later 997.1 models. Engines in all of these cars are very problematic. They have lots of issues with ims, intermix, cracked heads, cracking/dchunk cylinders, scoring, just to name few most common ones. Price of those models reflects cost of maintenance and engine repair. Later models are more expensive because they're newer, as they age and start breaking down purchase price will go down eventually. Most reliable Porsches ( turbo, gt3, air cooled) actually keep their value or their value goes up overtime, this is why there is such a difference.
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