Is the 4 cylinder strong enough to pull a 465lb aluminum motorcycle trailer loader with an 850lb Honda goldwing or should I get a 6 cylinder engine?
The Subaru will handle 1350 pounds. I personally do not think that towing with a CVT is a good idea though. If the car is going to be loaded up with luggage and you will be driving over mountain passes I would recommend using a light truck or a decent sized SUV with at least a 5,000# towing capacity instead.
The Outback 6 is rated at 3,000 pounds, the 4 is rated at 2,700 but if it were me towing I would want to make sure I had a really good warranty to replace the super expensive CVT.
cameron8761- for your information, I have a teardrop trailer that I'm towing behind my 2010 Subaru Outback Limited , 2.5 , FOUR, and no problems at all with the CVT transmission. The owner's manual does recommend having the transmission fluid replaced every 30,000 miles and I think it's not a bad idea whether you're towing or not. And, I've towed my car and trailer to the North Rim of the Grand Canyon, Sequoia Kings Canyon, Zion and Death Valley easily. Mark Twain said " the news of my death is greatly exaggerated" and the same holds true with the CVT transmission. If Subaru of America designed this car to tow 2,700 pounds and installed a CVT transmission, you'd better believe it was no accident. Here's a picture of my car and trailer.
Also, please read this thread from a while back..... https://www.cargurus.com/Cars/Discussion-t51992_ds667194
The CVT's carrier bearings are soft. ANYTHING you do to increase load will statistically be correlated with increased failure rate, blue sky finger-0crossing, Grasshopper, notwithstanding. Lifespan is a crapshoot, but you ARE loading the dice against you when adding towed mass. Denial isn't just a river in Egypt....
To specifically answer the query: either motor will tow a ton or more just fine; it's the CVT we're rightly fretting over.
You know, I just dropped off my car yesterday at the dealership where I purchased my car......NO, it wasn't my CVT transmission, LOL..... I brought the car in for the two recalls, the windshield wiper motor and the Takata air bag..... well, I had a conversation with the service manager and he told me that they've only seen a couple of Subaru Outback's or Legacy cars with CVT transmission problems and all of these cars had way more than 100,000 miles. Yeah, you can believe anything or anyone you want, but , just saying it's a widespread problem doesn't make it true.... The way you characterize it, all of these cars are just on automatic pilot to self destruct.... Very disingenuous and misleading information... Very sad comments indeed.
The service manager told me that they've seen more Mitsubishi cars with CVT transmission issues.
Grasshopper. Just saw THREE 2013 OBs with bad CVTs, as well a 2015 Legacy w/ 69k. Maybe your Subie store lives in a flyover area...or where there simply aren't many Subies...like LA?
TheSubaruGuruBoston- WOW, yeah, flyover zone??? While Subaru cars only make up 0.8 percent of the vehicles sold in California, let me put this in another perspective. LA county has more registered vehicles than most anywhere else. This is car country, so, even though less than 1 percent seems low, take a look at this census report below,. The operative language here is "There were just under 6.2 million cars registered in Los Angeles County in 2014. Only three states, excluding California, had more registered cars than did Los Angeles County: Texas (8.0 million), New York (5.1 million), and Florida (7.4 million). Source: DMV & Federal Highway Administration" http://www.laalmanac.com/transport/tr02.htm
Ernie, OK, please put some more facts on the table, specifically, how many CVTs from each year from 2010 to 2015 have you actually seen. I would like to know if you have any opinions about the First and second generation. ? I've read that the first edition was "OVER Built" and heavier than the second lighter weight model to save fuel...OK, here's your chance to rant on the CVT.... justified or NOT. I still think your concerns are colored by the fact that you only see problem cars.. Look, that's the business you're in . Do you really think Subaru would sabotage their own cars by switching to a problem transmission??
Cameron, sorry, but this is what often happens when Grasshopper starts hopping....
Cameron, WOW, Ernie just has anecdotal information, not real facts, there's a big difference here. He's just basing his opinions on the car's he is seeing, and by the way, at the same time selling used Subarus with the CVT transmission? Ernie, if you are so pessimistic about the CVT transmission, how can you sell someone the used Legacy models over 100,000 miles with with a straight face??
Mark - Dealers LIE about car problems. They do sell cars so they are not going to admit to wide spread problems that would impact sales. I caught my dealer in bald faced lies about how many engines they were replacing due to oil consumption.
Mark - Yes Subaru and other car manufacturers routinely sabotage their cars in their quest to build them cheaper, not better. The bean counters rule! You sure are earning your SOA check today! ;)
Full_of_Regrets-. I've NEVER done anything or worked for any company I didn't believe in. It's not easy looking in the mirror realizing that you're lying to people just for your own advancement. No one told you to purchase a Subaru, there's plenty of choices out there, BUT, when you're in the business of repairing the very cars you're disparaging and then turning around and selling them as well, there's something fundamentally INCONSISTENT about this. Maybe, Ernie is rebuilding them to be better in his shop, that would be NICE. I don't know. I'm an optimist, I know people who have gone 200,000 to 300,000 miles on the CVT. Look, everyone is going to have a different experience with any car and I can tell you that not everyone maintains their cars the same way. CVT's are the future now, and this doesn't usually revert back to old technology. If you really think that Subaru builds cheaper and lousy cars, why don't you compare them to Chrysler who has.a terrible record. There's a reason why Subaru is number 5 on the list of the best vehicles, don't take my word for it, that's Kelly Blue Book. I'm getting really tired of hearing all of you just complain about how bad it is. Why don't you get rid of your car, hop onto another forum and answer questions about your new purchase. Yes, Lexus is considered the best engineered car in the world today, maybe you should go out and get one!!
Subaru is trying to bury these problems in vain hopes that they will go away. Subaru is riding the wave of past cars that were good but the current ones are going to sink them if they don't fix them. You sure are taking this Subaru thing personally Mark but it sounds like your are admitting that you do indeed work for SOA. Funny how you don't drive a new one but one that was built before a lot of these problems surfaced. I would sell my car but it is such a POS that I would not be able to sell it honestly so I don't.
Mark, once again you use unsupported anecdotal stories to support your claims of CVT longevity. The issue is the overall problems with CVT's. Funny how you don't seem to know any people that get less than 100k on their CVT and you never address the absurd replacement cost!
One last parting shot Mark. I have FULL documentation including photographs to prove my problems. What do you have?
Full_of_Regrets-. Well, well, well,. You really think I work for SOA..? I'm sorry to disabuse you of this notion, but, I don't work for Subaru. As for the person who I know with 300,000 miles on their 2010 Subaru Outback Limited, they had an unfortunate accident shortly after that and their car was destroyed.... One of the most impressive things about this accident, they walked away unharmed after the collision. The Subaru Outback is a VERY SAFE CAR. This person is someone on the forum. I'm sorry that you have had such bad luck with your 2015 Subaru Forester, really, it's terrible news. I'm beginning to think that cars are like fine wines with different vintages, some good others not. It is consistent with what I'm seeing on the website below,, http://www.carcomplaints.com/Subaru/ I've been very pleased with my 2010 Subaru Outback Limited, had it 30 months and have not had one single issue with the car. Just normal routine maintenance, oil changes, tire rotation, new windshield wipers, and one transmission flush that I elected to do. Yes, it's true that my car has the EJ Series 2 engine, not the redesigned FB series motor. My car uses a little oil, that's perfectly normal for a boxer engine. I think I've put in maybe one half quart between oil changes, no big deal. If your car is a 2015, it should.be under warranty unless you really ran up the miles extremely fast...? I think I recall correctly that you had an oil burning issue and did not want to deal with the dealership in Northern California. I see you are in the process of selling the Jaguar, good for you! I noticed that only the 2015 Subaru Forester with manual transmission is on the list below, not the model with the CVT transmission. Ernie's business is repairing cars. Of course he's only going to see problem cars. There's a legion of folks out there who don't have any problems, he'll never see them. And, the reason he's not answering my question about how many specific model years is he doesn't want to admit that it's just a small number. He said he's seen three cars I would hardly call this a huge number. http://www.girardgibbs.com/subaru-oil-consumption-class-action- lawsuit/
My car was and is under warranty but the nightmare of dealing with the dealer and SOA has put me off Subaru permanently unless I MAYBE buy an older model that comes from Subaru's golden years, not their declining years. Well I hope you don't end up paying 9 grand for a new CVT Mark. As I recall your car is low miles so it is not much of an example. As far as your alleged SOA affiliations all I can say is walks like a duck, quacks like a duck. :)
Mark, I talked to a Subaru service manager that I trust ( he rebuilt my new engine) about the CVT and he was not exactly a cheerleader for it. He would not lie to me nor would he tell me horror stories ( he knows where his bread is buttered) but he did tell me of a single example of a high mile CVT he had seen in his shop ( a major California city) and he seemed somewhat incredulous that it had gone that long.
Full_of_Regrets- Look, I don't know how to say this except that I've NEVER worked for Subaru or any other car manufacturer. My car has just under 81,000 miles and it's a 2010, pretty normal mileage for a 7 year old car. SO, what's high mileage?? Did you ask him how many miles were on this SINGLE example vehicle??
Well north of 200k as I recall. Any car even a Dodge would in good shape after only 81k miles. ;) It is your single minded cheer-leading and ignoring of inconvenient facts that lead people to tease you about working for Subaru Mark.
Most of my mileage is accumulated on longer road trips. We take this car out of town, sometimes with or without the trailer. And, once we get up to speed on the open highway, it's just cruising purring like a kitten. I do drive this car some in town, but, it's not as easy on fuel as my 2009 Toyota Prius. The ride and quietness of the Subaru Outback is much better on the road. I have some friends with the Subaru Forester and noticed that the vehicle is a little more truck like...
Full_of_Regrets- If you listen to Ernie, the Subaru Guru from Boston, he's basically trashing and bashing the CVT transmission even after 100,000 miles and what's AMAZING is not only does he work on these cars, he takes in late models with around 90 to 100,000 miles, does a little routine maintenance and flips them over to clients! Now, if he does this and then tells people like me that the CVT transmissions are failing just north of 100,000 miles, I have a problem believing he is providing good service to his customers... Now, maybe I'm wrong about that?? If so, fine, I'll shut up about this. You can't have it both ways... With regards to your example of a CVT transmission failure above 200,000 miles, well, what do you expect? Yes, any car over 200,000 miles is prone to failure by any measure, including the transmission, engine and many other things. I'll never keep my car that long, I normally swap my cars around 150,000 or so. I've owned a few cars to almost 200,000 miles, takes a little more attention. And, the inconvenience of breakdowns is much more frequent, so, I'd rather skip it. I happen to like the performance of the boxer engine and the way the car drives. Yeah, just because I like the car, doesn't mean I work for the company. If people want to say that it's a gigantic leap of logic, pretty ridiculous. Everyone should like the car they are driving, otherwise, you purchased the WRONG car. I'm truly sorry that you are so disappointed with your Subaru Forester.... what a shame. And, if I happen to have a transmission problem, well, I'll deal with it. It wouldn't be the first time if it occurred. Last time I had a problem with a premature failure was on my 1980 Honda Accord at 115,000 miles. Cost me almost $2,000 back then in 1991. It happens. Let me tell you, no matter what goes wrong and things do happen, it's less expensive than buying a new car! Everyone is always focused on the "value" of the vehicles, when they're missing the most important point, it's the service you get from the vehicle. I'm lucky that my 1995 Honda Accord didn't need any engine or transmission work, but plenty of other things did go wrong and the cost of maintaining that car and acquiring it was substantial. $ 28,000 to purchase, another $10,000 over 20 years... So, $2,000 a year to maintain the car wasn't too bad, but, it still cost money to keep it afloat. Car was perfect, and sold it for $3,000... I'm sure you paid a lot to keep your Jaguar in top shape???
Don't bash Ernie for repairing and selling cars. I am sure he evaluates them before selling. He is where the rubber meets the road so we should pay attention to what he says but it does not take a Guru to know that CVTs' are not ready for prime time. Subaru, Nissan and others are experimenting on their customers with these transmissions and the customers are paying the price. GM did the same thing with their gasoline based diesel engines. As far as the Jag I did my own maintenance except for valve adjustments but it did not cost me a dime as I sold it for 5x what I paid for it.
Full_of_Regrets-. My only reservation is about the way CVTs are characterized as being fragile when you referred to a car that went 200,000 miles, that's not unreasonable at all. It's very disingenuous to slam CVTs in one instance,. citing cars that failed at 69,000 miles and sell used cars with the same transmission with over 100,000 miles. How can you say they're not ready for prime time with the market so saturated with new cars from multiple manufacturers. From what I've read, and heard, Subaru has done a better job by building their own in house unit. I understand that Mitsubishi and Nissan have had more issues than Subaru. My hope is that Ernie has gone through the cars he sells with a fine tooth comb. I'm not bashing him, he's OK.
Grasshopper, settle down! You purport to know what's in my mind, and then castigate me for the onset of a failure curve that will further mature over use. Your complete lack of statistical training informs your erroneous claims. CVTs are clearly UN-engineered: some will fail, some won't, as the luck of the curves will dictate over time. I can EASILY resell my perfected Subies w/ CVTs when sharing my concerns with prospective clients re the long-term probabilities of failure. Most understand that the significant risk is worth the possibility of a $2k (used CVT installed) cost in the future; VERY analogous to the head gasket $1.8k issue plaguing almost ALL of the 2000-2009/11 2.5i production. Your polarizing (black-or-white) analysis is hyperbolic and naive. Stay small, Grasshoipper....
"Disingenous"?! Shame on you, Mark.... Your pollyanna-ish diatribes are now turning insulting. STOP IT!
Mark you just don't seem to understand statistics. Every product will fail somewhere along a bell curve. Just because a rare few go high miles does not mean others can or do go that far. The technology has not progressed far enough for them to be fully reliable. Then there is the outrageous cost to replace them. Mark can you honestly say you would spend 9 grand or so to fix your car that isn't even worth that much? Maybe with the SOA employee discount it would not cost you that much. ;)
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