96 EX de-rice and build...
Hey guys I have done a lot of work to this car.
I have removed a body kit, replaced the headlights and taillights, changed some interior, and took off those 19" rims!!!
Right now I have no money to work on this beast haha so it is sitting on hold right now.
My plans are to rebuild a B18C5 with all aftermarket internals for 310bhp... and it's possible, I'm not chasing fool's gold.
I also need side skirts right now... the ones I picked up didn't line up properly.
Also need a new hood, then paint.
I was thinking a copper metallic with gold flakes, or a royal blue with silver flakes.
I have rims awaiting tires that I should be getting next week sometime, so that's taken care of.
Also looking for K color interior if anyone has some extra...
Any questions, suggestions feel free Im open-minded...
310 bhp out of 1.8l would require incredibly high octane fuel that isn't readily available... For tuning for pump gas I'd recommend you think about lower boost pressure and hp goals (You didn't mention a turbo but that's about the only way it's obtainable). Can always get a boost controller and crank it up at the track when you got 110 octane in there, but you don't want to destroy a built engine. I'm assuming you know this already, but many here don't and don't want them to get the wrong idea. I would say as far as paint goes to go with a more understated color, of the two you mentioned, I'd go with blue with silver flake. That's my bias though, I like sleepers Otherwise seems like a nice project, have you thought about stopping power or suspension upgrades at all?
I have a really good friend that has an uncanny expertise in cars, escpecially tuners. He assures me that I will have a little over 300bhp off a totally built B18C5... and I believe it's obtainable. I mean no disrespect to you or anyone, but I am having everything aftermarket... and Im doing a hone and sleeve on the block and a port and polish on the head. This engine will be baby, therefore I will have no part in turbo due to the possibility of damaging my engine. Also I always use 93 octane in my Y8 now haha. This engine will definitely cost me well over $6000, so I know I will have at least 250bhp out of it. As for the color it is Royal blue with flakes FTW!!! I will eventually get some Volk TE37's in dark bronze... even though they are overplayed haha...
no being a prick or jus arguing about nuttin.... but to the people hu recon you cant get 310bhp ish from a b18c.... u can all bout the low compression pistons and a high boost turbo... ive seen b16a2 civics run 7 psi boost stock internals, decent tyres and bigger injectors run 275 bhp.... 0-60 5.5seconds.... dunno bout you but thats not alot of work for a sleeper 1.6
Yea... we should just drop the argument or whatever about the engine and just say that its going to be an N/A beast because it is... And I don't want to do turbo on my DD because if something goes wrong I will be F'ed... Although if I really wanted to go with turbo I would be going with forged internals and about 10psi. Right now Im just waiting to get my new tires with my next paycheck and then looking for side skirts(finally)... and then a new exhaust that doesn't scream when I'm doing 80 on the highway because its really annoying... Also... My reserve has been met for those damn 19" rims!!! Hopefully the buyer doesn't flake so they are gone!!!
its not going to take $6k to get 300bhp (260ish whp?) not sure why you don't want turbo since it shouldn't cost you more that $3k, with stock internals, upgraded fuel system, and a tune. you would be able to get 300whp on pump gas. before you do anything do way more research. you don't polish heads, it makes them flow worse, you just port them, its going to take lots of compression and a pretty wild cam. good luck with daily driving 300hp NA, unless you are using a 50shot. and turbo would put less stress on the motor than NA.
My bad on the port and polish... it just flows when I say it haha... never mean to... just happens... old habit And the main reason I don't want turbo is the amount of stress on the engine that a turbo causes... I don't want turbo with my DD...yet... and I will only be running 10:1 compression roughly... The stock internals on the B18 do not handle boost very well over a long period of time... And nitrous is outta the picture right now as well... I am not a fan of nitrous because of the added heat it creates... ok... so maybe 300bhp might be ridiculous... but with titanium rods and the other stuff I'm doing my car will be wicked quick off the line and won't have to wait for a turbo to spool up... I understand you guys love your boost and I don't blame you... I just don't want to get addicted to boost just yet... I'm too young in my life with cars to get addicted to boost... I want to feel just the roar of the naturally aspirated engine for awhile... and if I want boost... I can slap a nice little 8psi setup on my already ridiculous monster engine and shoot for a little over 400hp roughly... it's not like rebuilding this engine is throwing turbo completely out the window... =D How about this question guys... Carbon fiber hood or OEM
boost doesn't hurt motors, horsepower does. so saying that boost will hurt the engine more than NA doesn't make sense. i'm not saying to go boost over NA, just saying that you might want to do plenty more research before you try anything. and 10:1 compression wont get you in the 300hp range, but if you manage to boost on 10:1 compression with a good tune, you will have a very efficient setup. you wont have to flow nearly as much boost to make power which means faster spool and broader power band. and while titanium is harder than steal, it is also more brittle, so it wont last as long as steal valves, especially with a higher reving NA motor, thats why motorcycle guys replace their oem titanium valves with steal valves. and for the hood, find an oem one from a salvage yard, save your money for the engine/suspension.
I get what youre saying... But mind you... I am nowhere near getting a new motor yet... I still have a lot of exterior work to get done first... motor is definitely going to be the last thing to be done... unless my current motor decides to putter out... Boost is a possibility... but I will definitely not have a boost controller if I do get one... I do not want to overboost and bend a rod or just destroy my motor... Just waiting to get the money around and having time to mull everything over... One thing is certain though... LSD 6-speed tranny!!! And yea I was thinking full coilovers for the suspension... and OEM hood is not a bad idea... CF does fade... but it's lighter... eh... OEM FTW!!!
Nobody's asking you to do 2.0bar of boost pressure. Running NA will most likely not get you over 300bhp you know, while a low boost can get you close. 250bhp is a more likely figure. You've got to run on 98 fuel though. Can't compromise if you're serious about power. The exhaust won't scream if you've got a silencer on it, and empty out the car if you want to go faster. Its free horsepower. F = MA simple as that.
Going straight physics haha and yea F=MA is a great simple way to explain power. And idk what 2.0Bar is... I do psi sry =[ Im assuming thats 15 or more psi... And I think that I could hit 400bhp with some boost thats not too risky haha but I want about 300... And I won't have to use 98 to hit that with boost... Shit I could even throw in a 20lb bottle of giggle gas to run on small leak so it's like running 110 octane or something like that haha Giggle gas for the win?!?!? So... anybody got some 96 coupe side skirts? I need them...
Do yourself a favor and read up on volumetric efficiency. Find out what you can/can't do on an N.A. motor that way when you pick cams you pick ones for your application.
400hp on pump gas is doable depending on your area. if you can run e85 then you are good to go. if not then look up water injection. many people are using it to control knock on high compression/forced induction motors, and it only costs about $100-$200 for a universal kit. Nitrous oxide wont boost your octane, its just extra oxygen, much like forced induction is extra air. more air needs more fuel which means stronger combustion. and the weight of a carbon fiber hood wont do anything, you only save a few pounds, not worth it. only way it would be worth it is to have carbon fiber hood, fenders, roof, and trunk lid. and you can prevent carbon fiber from fading by sanding off the gel coat and spraying a thick clear coat over it, then treating it like a normal paint job. before you dump a bunch of money in to anything check out a few forums. d-series.org is a good one to look at to take care of the motor you have now while you clean up the body. you can also check out honda-tech.com but beware, they are real buttholes to anyone without crazy build.
Thanks a lot guys! I was a member of clubcivic.com for awhile and those guys were mostly jackasses... I will definitely check out d-series.org cuz I won't have my new engine for awhile... And we will just see what happens with my car... =D
most forum guys will treat you like crap if you walk into it acting like a now it all and have an attitude. you'll get slammed for having body kits and huge rims no matter where you go, so be warned. don't get butt hurt if someones says they don't like your car. basically if you go into a forum asking for advice, don't get butthurt to get everyone's oppinion.
I always know that there is more to learn and I respect everyone's opinion... no matter how harsh it is =D I know how the good forum guys are... and as for the forum guys that are the douschebags... I just tend to ignore them and let them think they are cool haha... And thanks for all your help guys I really appreciate it!!! And I should have the new tires for the 16"s in a few days!!!
What kind of tires did you go with?
I get some Fuzion VRi 205/50 R16 I'm pretty pumped about them... they are some good starter tires... I'll get better ones once I have more money to spend on my tires =D
those are probably the cheapest "performance" tire you can get, other than the HRi. only issue i had was the rubber started cracking pretty early. they don't last as long as more expensive tires. 16" is a good size and the largest i would ever go with. good luck with the build and keep posting your progress
280+ aint possible with out a turbo or supercharger! even with a polished head, high lift cams, forced induction, 4-2-1 manifold an so on and so on! but you could always go for a turbo running a low psi to keep it as a reliable daily driver? as for the rims try an stick to 15" rims as eks love them try not to go any bigger! sleeper is the best way to go that or either full JDM gear
depending on what you want to do i think that 16" is a good compromise between looks and performance. if you can find some lightweight 16" then i would jump on them. the smaller sidewall on the 16" would flex less and would translate to more responsive handling, but if they are a cheaper brand they will be heavier and can take a surprising chunk of you acceleration away. however, if you are drag racing then you'll obviously want a smaller rim so that you can air them down more and have a larger contact patch
don't go lower than 8:1 you loose efficiency. guys on d-series.org are running turbo's with 10:1 cr and making a bunch more power on much less boost. meaning they can run a smaller turbo to get the same power, quicker spool time, etc. etc.
forced induction is a turbo or supercharger....
sorry my bad dunno y i wrote it?????? was ment to say cold air induction
I am definitely keeping the 16's for looks. And as for the engine... might as well put that on hold... I am flat ass broke for now.. and probly for a few months... ugh but I am definitely getting a paint job before I even think engine
lol i understand that completely. get it to the point where it looks at least as goo as stock
So the car was running great and smooth and amazing yesterday... Went to run some movies back... and... the clutch is gone... won't shift into gear and no resistance on the pedal whatsoever!! And I have a grand total of $32 in my bank account and I don't get paid until 2 Fridays from now!!! Yay!!!
Well... good news the clutch didn't go out... just a bound up shift fork or something of the sort... just gotta drive the baby nice and easy until I get it replaced
yeah i was going to say if there wasn't any resistance on the pedal its not a worn out plate but glad you got it worked out.
you port intake side polish exhaust side. DD-ing a NA 300hp is not a great idea either i rather DD a boosted car. keep it under max spool and still save decent gas. what sleeves? what will you bore your walls out to? you said you were going to have everything aftermarket? what crank and stroke then? custom length rods? off the shelf rods? 300hpNA of course its possible.you WILL need custom piping not just any custom piping. you needa do the math and figure out how long, how wide if it should taper or maybe you should have the venturi effect. pulling 300hp is a lot. and you will need to factor in EVERY aspect. need to factor everything so you will have the maximum VE. i would go a different route. it would be cheaper to build a gsr with a b16 head since you are going to do all this great stuff to the head and what not. the gsr bottom block is the same as the type r. the type r head is a honda slighty worked head with some upgraded valveset. you are going about this all wrong. if you are going to completely change a type r motor start somewhere cheaper. unless you want to do some bragging... ha. tossing all this money into the b. in my opinion h2b would be a lot cheaper and a lot more attainable.
Hey guys its been forever since I got a pic up of the ride... lots of changes since that first pic
getting there. needs side skirts and paint. are you sticking with silver?
haha yea it def needs the skirts... but I think Im going to try and get another silver cheap to match the bumpers... but eventually I want to go royal blue with silver flakes
Well... I have been broke and haven't done much... Broke the Rack for my power steering which is awesomely not cheap... Also got pulled over in the flow of traffic and a ticket for 6 over!!! so I have so many bills right now I can't even think about fixing my car but I will get it fixed and will be doing autocross next year for sure
pull a rack from a junker. itr non power rack would be sweet for autox. are you going to fight the ticket cuz 6 over is bull
Yea there are no cars around here in the junkyard that I can use... almost no Civics around here... And so does the ITR rack just swap right in? or is there a lot of modification needed. And I just payed the ticket cuz I didn't want to deal with it cuz he could've given me a ticket for other stuff as well...
idk what you need for the rack. what else could they have ticketed you for?
Empty out the car. Empty out the car. When i snap my fingers you will not remember any of this and head straight to the garage and ask them to pull everything out. Hahahaha. Nah seriously, if you want good performance out of a small displacement vehicle you've definitely got to save on weight. I moved to the states to further my studies and i bought an eclipse here. After emptying it out, it now responds significantly better round the corners and on acceleration. But then again, since this is a temporary car for me I felt that I could just play with the thing and see what I could do to it. But if you're hardcore you could keep that in mind.
Well... Noise ordinance I have the loudest car I know of and can't wait to get a proper exhaust... And technically I was going 15 over... but he didn't get me on radar so its still bullshit. And right now I just want to get the thing running A-OK. But I really can't empty it out too much because it is my daily driver and I do talk to girls that don't dig the emptied out thing... Eventually I want to get racing seats and make the back seat removable (that'll be fun) By next summer I want it to be autocross ready with an engine rebuild and 8psi turbo.
honda+turbo+autocross isn't the greatest combo unless you get a tiny turbo.
definitely get a lip, stock si sounds good to me and a ctr grill, what rims are you putting on by the way and do you have yourself a set of nice coilovers?
Oh yea I would only be doing 8psi at the most and I probly would only run 5-6psi on the track... maybe less depending on my tuning and how the car deals with the turbo. I have lots of test runs to do before everything has been decided.
Yea I would love that stuff... but I am definitely more focused on the suspension rather than how it looks right now. And it doesn't have coilovers now... but hopefully some Form Function or maybe some Buddy Club N+ coilovers... I heard some good things about those... but we will see what the bank account decides... I might be able to get some Tien's if I am lucky. And as far as rims go... I would love to get some Gram Lights... preferably with a little curb damage to lower the price since it's autocross and they will probly get scratched anyways...
your going to autocross it? what do you have for power? did you swap it yet?
yeah if ur auto-xing then looks would be a pretty low priority. since ur going autox i'd still steer away from a turbo unless you are going with something pretty small like a 25 trim. you want to keep throttle response pretty crisp. i'd do some fairly basic stuff like the typical bolt on's, maybe try to bump the compression up a little, not a whole lot if you are trying to keep things budget friendly. you could get reground cam to take advantage of the compression,then port the head and manifold yourself (free!). i'd spend most of my money on the suspensionm tires, and transmission. look for some civic HX wheels for light weight on the cheap. they don't look fantastic but they don't look bad either (especially with a little paint). have you also considered a close ratio gearbox? it would be cheaper than a swap or turbo and yield a great performance increase, especially for an atuox car.
Yea I was thinking something along those lines to give me low boost with virtually no turbo lag. And I want to just do a rebuild on my Y8 with possibly some racing pistons, new injectors, throw in a high flow fuel rail, and maybe some Skunk2 valves. But I would definitely get some cams and bump the compression because that would be probably the best thing to do with cost:performance ratio. As far as suspension I'd love to get those Buddy Club N+ coilovers or maybe even some Tien coilovers. And tires... Some HX wheels would def work and I could probably get some good tires for those for less than $400. That gear box would be awesome but I have no idea how to even go about getting that, but the car is also my daily driver and I don't want to be doing 5000 rpms going down the highway at 80. So possibly short gears 1-3 and then slightly taller 4th and 5th for that daily driving because I definitely won't get into 4th in autox and I shouldn't even get into 3rd. I mean I can hit 60 in 2nd gear right now and I can't imagine going over 45-50 on the autox tracks they set up around here.
Haha I have that D16Y8 with VTEC for power! :) And I plan on a rebuild with that. Cams, injectors, fuel rail, maybe pistons and valves, We'll see. I am not too concerned on power right now, I want to get some coilovers because good suspension is always better than good power. And unfortunately my paying for stupid shit along the way has resulted in my being unable to do a swap yet...
look for a guy named aquafina (his real name is chris) on d-series.org. he's got a company called whoopee doo racing in Tennessee and they specialize in honda transmissions using Mfactory parts and parts from other transmissions to put together whatever transmission you want. you tell him what you are doing, what you want, and he will set it up for you. he's very reasonably priced. offered to rebuild my y8 transmission for $300 (vs $1200 at a local place) if i shipped it to him.
you dont expect going faster then 45-50?? my d16y4 can hit 50 in first...if its a serious autox car closer ratios would help heaps. even if its just for first or second. maybe third. good luck with it. should be good.
I mean I don't plan on going faster than that on the autox track because I think the longest straight on the tracks around here is like 500ft... maybe... And that's a bit ridiculous... most Lambo's and such redline about 55-60 in first... I redline right now at 34 in first and 62 in Second... give or take 1mph haha
wait...whoops. haha i forgot you guys work in mph. i was thinking kph. lol. my civic goes 45-50 kph in first, which i guess would be around 30mph. that makes much more sense. i was thinking 50 kph was a little slow. but anyway. sounds good. autox is great.
I know what you mean man. Ever since I moved to the states I've had to work out the conversion in my head all the time. 1 mile = 1.6km. 14.5psi = 1 bar lol.
Ok That makes mush more sense. :) I was thinking how you were getting any pick-up in first gear at all... Well I got the rack and pinion fixed and I found out that I need a camber kit for the front end. My 40,000 mile tires got destroyed in about 4,000 miles!!! So the steelies are back on I'm getting new tires for those and waiting for a camber kit then getting some coilovers
Hey so I decided that I am just going to keep the D16Y8 and do a rebuild so I probably won't have to change classes for autox
sounds good. better off starting out slow until you can pick up enough finds to get serious, and you'll have more fun a little sooner.
Haha that is true. The only major engine modifications I want to do: Cam Gears, Camshafts, and possibly valves. I believe I am going to stick to all Skunk2 parts for those.
i doubt you'd need to do valves unless your running huge boost. but the others seem good.
yeah valves aren't really needed, unless you are doing a rebuild. and a cam wont really net much gain unless you pair it up with some extra compression. you can add compression by milling the head/block or playing around with different pistons
Well I plan on doing a rebuild with all this stuff next spring/early summer. I am looking at some pistons... SRP don't seem too bad for the price. And I was looking at running 10.5:1 compression with the SRP pistons.
you don't need to buy aftermarket pistons unless you push a bunch of power and since you are going NA and i'm assuming you wont use NO2 (kinda dumb for autox) you might make 130-150whp (which is about the same as a b18). a good head/block mill or some d16a6 will get you what you want. check out http://www.zealautowerks.com/dseries.html to see what combination of pistons and heads gets you the compression you want.
sorry i meant d16a6 pistons**
Haha Yea I knew you meant that, and those would give me a compression of about what I want. Without milling at all with D16a6 pistons Static Comp 10.34:1 Effective Comp 10.14:1 And then I'm assuming that milling would give me enough increase to get me to 10.5:1 if that's what I really want. And Thomas, you know your stuff! You don't just know the aftermarket parts and which one's the best, but you know all the stock parts and how to interchange them for maximum efficiency. I greatly value your advice and help. Also, what is your opinion on titanium rods? Do you think they can handle the raised compression?
I don't know as much as most builders, my knowledge is from lurking around a couple forums and research. do you mean titanium valves, because i haven't heard of people using titanium connecting rods? seems like that would be a step down since forged steel connecting rods are stronger. either way, its not necessary on your build, the stock rods can easily hold the power as long as you aren't getting premature detonation from the extra compression (fixed with a tune). this place will help you a lot http://www.d-series.org/forums/naturally-aspirated/
Save the money from the machine shop and just get a thinner head gasket, rather than milling the head. Main benefit in titanium is the lightened weight, supposedly the actual torque gains during acceleration aren't significant enough to justify the cost of such parts, but they will help it rev fast as hell without load. If you got the money though it's a place you can spend it, but likely not the best At that compression you shouldn't have to worry too much, if you don't mind using premium, I'd recommend looking for higher compression than that... Big area for gaining power these days is by increasing thermal efficiency and reducing friction through use of coatings... DLC coatings in particular, speaking of which if you get titanium valves make sure they are DLC coated it improves the longevity of them several fold over.... There are other friction reducing coatings out there but DLC can be applied to almost anything because it's so thin (<.1 micrometers if memory serves) so it can be aplied to bearings granted it is more expensive. However thermal barrier coatings are probably where you see the most gains. These are usually aplied to the piston face, combustion chamber, and valve faces. Thermal barrier coatins are also generally more readily available, so finding a place to do it will be easier. I've never looked too hard at coatings so hopefully someone will chime in with more details, I'd assume if anyone here would it'd be Chamal
i doubt you would need titanium rods. the stock dseries conrods can take about 150kw before failing, so again, unless your planning on running high boost, you shouldnt need it. titanium rods would also allow you to rev higher, but with SOHC engines the rev limit is also determined by the vavletrain, and its way too hard to get an accurate valve timing at high revs with sohc, since there is more mass between camshaft and valves.
Yea the rods mostly just help with making the engine able to turn-over a lot quicker... and I probly won't get them... it just would be nice. And as for DLC coating... I have never heard of that but I am definitely going to research it a lot and see what I come up with. And I doubt that I will be able to hit over 220hp so the stock rods should be good.
i havent heard of the coatings either. if you find anything interesting, let us know!
Oh Most definitely! I will post up what I find out
just so you know you wont even come close to 220whpwitht the modifications you're talking about. the 200ish whp NA d-series motors i've seen are running 12:1 or more compression with very aggressive cams with a lot of airflow mods, or they use no2. i've only seen the coating used once and there wasn't a whole lot said about it. but in theory the power you see at the flywheel is only 33% of what the motor is actually producing, while the other 66% is lost through heat (via friction and other areas), so in theory anything that reduce that energy could net great gains.
Yea I know and to be honest that much power for autocross would be way too much... I would be all over the place. The problem with theory is that it doesn't always work out well... But even saving 10% of that energy lost to heat would be amazing! I really hope I can find some more out about this coating as soon as I get enough free time to sit down and do it.
http://www.jsme.or.jp/English/awardg06-07.pdf Some information from Nissan, it's a bit old but they apparently do it to parts of the GTR's motor.. It seems expensive as hell if you send off to a specialty platers. That being said it's used on mill tools, so if you can find a manufacturer of machine tools in your area they might be able to help you out. Also as I said you should look at thermal barrier coatings first, they increase the thermal efficiency of the engine.
have you looked at lightened flywheels??? they wont create any power, but it makes the engine more responsive, and it means you lose less power in the drivetrain.
Well my dad works at a machining place so I will just ask him but Im pretty sure they don't do it at his work but he should be able to find a place relatively close that can do it
Yea Someone else mentioned that haha And I will look into those when I get a new clutch I'm not going to keep the stock clutch
Make sure you have enough low end power by then though or a sports clutch is gonna be a bitch.
Yea that is true, I will definitely have some low end power for that and I'm not going to have a racing cluthc though haha and I looked into the thermal barriers and they are expensive and very complicated. I plan on doing it if I get another engine that I can just use for the track.
Looking for a Used Civic in your area?
CarGurus has 51,346 nationwide Civic listings starting at $1,200.
Search Honda Civic Questions
Honda Civic Experts
Related Models For Sale
Used Cars For Sale